post the deepest shit you can think of

vincevonvice

Oh the irony.

vincevonvice

Hey look, Denmark and Canada are among the most economically free nations in the world. And they have Universal Health Care, free college education, extensive welfare programs, and strong regulations for a fair market. They also enjoy higher quality of life than the United States too.

Who woulda thunk it.

vincevonvice

You're right. I'm off to contribute some English major bullshit about magic and fascination when I read the next half-arsed meme comment.

Toodles~

vincevonvice

Yes I'm painfully serious about the decline and shittification of reddit. And for a user of 3 years, I'm surprised you can embrace this crap so easi- I mean, see the bright side of things.

vincevonvice

Oh so that's why you have 56 thousand karma points. You only respond in puns and loquacious ego stroking. Well by all means, don't let me interfere with the reddit celebrity's circle jerk.

vincevonvice

Ethernet is a great thing. And belittling mankind's great efforts to achieve it is quite crass.

vincevonvice

Arguing on the Internet is retarded, and talking on the Internet is retarded, and even reading on the Internet is retarded. Why may one ask? Well it's like the special olympics. Things on the Internet areretarded because I call them so, therefore it is like the retarded special olympics.

Glad we broke out that heavy session of logic and reasoning.
That about raps this exchange up though. Everything about it was retarded, after all.

vincevonvice

I can only speak for myself, but to me magic is the mind's invention of what does not exist in reality. It is the retreat of the ignorant who use a catch-all like magic to explain their world.

When I see the world I see the beauty of its natural workings, not some supernatural entity's machinations. Evolution's ancient path leading to today's myriad of biodiversity inspires me with fascination, but not because its fantastical. Wielding and learning the seemingly infinite ways technology can be used to an advantage has given me much enjoyment, but not from some ethereal attributes they might have.

vincevonvice

How fitting that a science fiction author and a fantasy writer view the result of scientific pursuit as "magic."

vincevonvice

Let someone else do the work. Seriously.

vincevonvice

You assume that 4chan even cares about this lame website.

vincevonvice

Lightning chooses the path of least resistance. I find it improbable for it to strike relatively inert waves crashing on the beach when there is a metallic fence at an even higher altitude.

vincevonvice

What an indicative comment of /r/pics' demographics.

vincevonvice

I appreciate the sentiment and well-thought out response, but elorg crassly replying to an intelligent explanation with "tl;dr magic" is nothing like the fascination and enjoyment you experienced as a child.

vincevonvice

I know for a fact you can turn of the Warm Stone alert.

vincevonvice

You are the cancer that is killing /r/cogsci/

That is all.

vincevonvice

Holy fuck learn2formatting kid.

Now the globe is peppered with them. I don't see your point here.

Anarchy is a transient period between order. Don't worry. It was tricky to understand.

I'm not sure.

Thank you for proving my point that Anarchy is not only incompetent at defending itself, it cannot even form an idea to defend itself.

How did France's government deal with it at the time?

The French government built massive defenses amidst an economic depression and manpower shortage. Ultimately the American, British and Russian governments were required to defeat the Nazi fascist government.

Stay in school kids.

Perhaps future anarchies will take advantage of nuclear warheads for defensive purposes.

Ahahahahahahah

Hint: How was Google founded and financed?

Third time I've asked and you still can't provide an answer. Are you slowly coming to the realization that your philosophy makes no sense?

JP Morgan is a private individual, not a government

Kudos for completely missing the point. Darwin was able to tour the world building evidence for the Origin of Species because he was part of the aristocracy. Archimedes was able to develop the screw for pumping water, and equations for measuring volume because he was born into the ruling class of Syracuse.

Money funds science. Capital will always be necessary for advanced research despite what your naive ramblings claim.

They just start producing iPhones and weed killer and anti-lock breaks all of a sudden.

Congrats for missing the point... again. The iPhone was a product for the huge and established market of mobiles. Apple was not risking colossal amounts of money creating a product for a market that did not exist, as was the case for internet technology and infrastructure. Weed killer was a solution to a problem since the beginning of agriculture. Anti-lock brakes were for the established market of automobiles which was a marginal increase in the technological capability of the current product.

No company would have invested the huge amounts of money into the Internet as our government did with DARPA.

Governments are always accountable to "the people"

No, Democratic Republics are accountable to the people. Look at all the Nordic countries who rank highest in terms of democracy thus facilitating the highest satisfaction with life, economic prosperity, and freedom.

Cool straw man argument though.

vincevonvice

the fact one might be less totalitarian than another is generally just temporary

Anarchy is the most temporary societal condition as evident by its remarkable lack of examples. When there is neither an institution to protect the people from external aggressors, nor a system of checks and balances to prevent tyranny, anarchy is quickly usurped. Just look at the prized example of Anarchist Catalonia. A couple short years and it was quickly conquered by Franco and hopelessly remained under totalitarian rule until his death.

But I can point out that the Nazis never attacked mainland America.

Ahahaha well then you're a willfully ignorant fool if you think they weren't planning so. The Nazis declared war on the U.S. and were developing the long range 'Amerika' bomber to strike at D.C. and New York. They were only stymied by the relentless front with the totalitarian USSR and Battle of Britain. Couple that with the U.S. sending massive amounts of war materiel to both Britain and the Soviets and the Nazis had no feasible way to strike the mainland.

How would your hypothetical anarchy have dealt with such a grievous external threat.

And I can point out that the numerous governments in Western Europe all failed at their job of defending their people from the Nazis. So government doesn't necessarily help here, either.

Lmao. You really have your head up your ass don't you? France fell because they lost huge amounts of men in the Western Front of WW1 which was fought almost exclusively on their soil. This is why they had to build vast defenses along Alsace-Lorraine, the border with Germany. They simply did not have the manpower to wage another war.

why don't you read any of the links I provide?

Yeah I'm going to spend my weekend reading 500 page books to get the answer to one question.

If you've actually read the material then this should be easy for you.

why would anybody want a man on the moon?

The same reason anybody wants to build the Large Hadron Collider. Or the International Space Station. Or the Hubble telescope. Scientific pursuits further the knowledge of the human race and makes us one step closer to understanding the true nature of the universe.

You must have a pitifully uninspired life to deride what is possibly mankind's greatest achievement.

Money doesn't invent things, people do.

Hahaha oh wow. You really don't the faintest idea what you're talking about do you? Certainly explains why you think anarchy would work.

Money runs experiments, purchases equipment, builds laboratories, hires specialists and finances everything needed to achieve cutting edge technology. Tesla, one of mankind's greatest scientific minds, didn't come up with his brilliant research by brooding in a dark room. He was financed by J.P. Morgan, one of the richest men in the world.

Nuclear energy - it's profitable, therefore it would be a business venture.

No business would have sunk vast amounts of capital into developing nuclear technology when there was no profitability in sight. Just like no company would have invested decades of research and millions of dollars into Internet technology when it couldn't be broadly marketed until the 90's.

"Let's point guns at people to get our way."

Hahahah which is exactly what happens when there's anarchy. There is no force to punish or catch criminals, so you get gangs that "point guns at people to get their way." It's hilarious you are unaware of this irony.

People will always try to use violence for their own gain. Might as well have a monopoly on it which is actually accountable to the people.

vincevonvice

Here's some failed states: Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Germany, the Netherlands. Oh, but looking at those nations is too inconvenient. Let's resort to ad hominems like a child. It's easier that way.

The Citizenry in those Social Democracies care about their rights, are ranked highest in press freedom, and are thus democratically active in controlling their governments. As a result they have succeeded in instituting the most politically and economically free legal systems in the world, the most fiscally stable and affordable Universal Health Care systems, and the most prosperous economies from strong educational and public investment policies.

Oh, and I shudder to imagine how, without regulations and laws we would have total chaos.

Then it seems you are blinded by your hatred of government that you choose the childish extreme against it. What other reason would explain your consistent disregard for the countless failures of anarchy such as Somalia, the Reign of Terror, Albania. Or the fact that every anarchy has been destroyed because it cannot defend itself.

How would an anarchy have defended us against the Nazis?

How would an anarchy even provide basic services like constructing bridges and highways without a tax base?

How would an anarchy have sent a man to the moon?

Or fund research teams to develop the Internet?

Or achieve nuclear energy?

Time to grow up and realize the world is not a black and white dichotomy of dictatorships and anarchies.

vincevonvice

You seem mad, bra. You mad?

The American style of government is among the least democratic and most corrupt in the western world. The Nordic Model is far superior which is why I've supported its social democratic republic from the beginning. When you're done with your name calling and straw man arguments try Scandinavia.

Well at least we don't have oil spills, thanks to government regulations

Clearly the answer is no government to regulate oil companies. Hahah

Well at least we don't have insane joblessness and high numbers of poor people because we have socialist

Because most Americans are idiots who bitched about imaginary death panels. Can't get any real jobs programs if the people don't want them.

Well at least everybody has their rights!

Americans don't care about their rights. They watch their American idol and youtube videos and don't raise an utterance of dissent when their rights are infringed. If the citizenry don't care about their rights, they won't care about them in an anarchy.

vincevonvice

I like how you get massively butthurt when you can't answer simple questions. Coincidentally, the last anarchist I spoke with acted the exact same way when posed with these basic questions about the philosophy.

How does a "government" with a monopolized authority enforce contracts?

Our courts built on Common Law act as universal arbitrators for contracts. In the case of a breach of contract, remedies are carried out against the obliged party by the justice system in place.

Wouldn't it always/mostly side with government employees/politicians/donors?

If the laws were written to side those entities then the courts would carry it out as such. The key is having good law, not the absence of law. So far democracy is the best system of designing and maintaining good law.

How does government deal with those who use violence?

Courts built on Penal Law would carry out a trial of the accused among a jury of their peers. If convicted they are sentenced in accordance with legal statute and precedent.

What incentives exist for governments to follow through with investigations and catch criminals if the authority figures retain their salaries/positions regardless of their effectiveness?

Judges are elected by the citizens they serve. If judges are corrupt they are voted out. If the law is corrupt citizens vote in new representatives to correct it.

How is a government-managed society with monopolized enforcers, courts, and mob-laws even a "society"?

so·ci·e·ty

–noun

an organized group of persons associated together for religious, benevolent, cultural, scientific, political, patriotic, or other purposes.

I won't patronize you by explaining the link.

What would prevent a government from turning into a tyranny of the rich? A tyranny of the masses?

Modern government is bound by its constitution to prevent tyranny by the rich or by the masses. This is why super-majorities are needed in order to amend the constitution for better or for worse. When the vast majority of the public think government should operate a certain way, it is only fair that government reflect their wishes. If you have grievances with such a system the right to persuade your fellow citizens' vote rests with your ability.

Who sets all this stuff up?

The Founding Fathers and subsequently the representatives elected by the American citizenry.

there will always be a certain % of people who are sociopaths.

If they were the only source of problems then crime levels would be constant throughout the world. This is clearly not the case. In a society with laws normal people commit crimes because it makes sense from a cost-benefit perspective. Those in poverty commit petty theft because small amounts of money are worth a lot to them, making the benefit high. The rich commit crimes primarily because the likelihood of being caught, and thus paying the cost, is very low. An effective justice system coupled with healthy economics is the best deterrent for normal people committing crime.

vincevonvice

Cool ad hominem attacks bra, but you still haven't answered any of my questions.

How does a "contractual society" with no enforced authority enforce its contracts?

How does anarchism deal with those who use violence?

How is an anarcho-capitalist society with private police, courts and laws even an anarchy?

What would prevent an anarcho-capitalist society from turning into a tyranny of the rich?

And it's cool that you agree Scandinavia is such a nice place to live. Too bad we can't have that same lifestyle here - there's a government keeping that from happening.

Scandinavia is a nice place to live precisely because of their government. Through democratic means they fund services like Universal Health Care, free college tuition, and public infrastructure with their taxes. Intelligent regulations and public investment on part of the government have resulted in social democracies being the most innovative nations in the world, among the litany of other successes I've already mentioned.

The Nordic Model for social democracy succeeds because it is good government, not because there is an absence of government.

vincevonvice

Anarchy: No rulership or enforced authority. This is the absence of police, which is an enforced authority. Are you saying anarchy does have a police force?

it simply failed at its job.

Hahahah because there was an absence of enforced authority. How exactly is having no police, the ideal of anarchy, the government's fault?

That would be like me calling pedophile priests "atheists".

That makes no sense. In the case of Montreal the government lost its police to enforce its laws, which resulted in lawlessness as the population rioted. No police gave people the freedom to loot and burn.

the "wild" West in America

The Wild West was a horrible place to live. People were in a perpetual state of distrust and paranoia as anyone could hold you at gunpoint to take your belongings and your life. Gangs were rampant, infrastructure was crap and health care near non-existent. And the few towns that managed to get started were quickly taken over by criminals, turning them into tyrannies.

Quaker Pennsylvania in the 1600s

Which was not an anarchy. William Penn founded Pennsylvania on democracy, religious freedom, and protection of traditional rights of the Englishmen. They had courts, trials by jury, and enforceable contracts. There were even slaves in Pennsylvania well into the 18th Century. Clearly you do not understand what anarchy is.

The necessity of government is a superstition. The idea that government keeps you safer is a superstition.

[Citation needed]

they tend to have the highest level of societal cooperation and lowest level of crime.

Scandinavia has very high levels of societal cooperation and low crime. Sweden, Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands are the most democratic countries in allowing their citizens to participate and shape government. As a result of their inclusive Social Democratic government they are the most prosperous, most free, and happiest nations in the world.

Anarchism can take many forms, but it is at its core nonviolent cooperation.

And how does anarchism deal with those who use violence?

vincevonvice

Anarchism is also the absence of any form of authority such as police. Such a society with "voluntary interaction and discovery" would include roving gangs volunteering to take all your possessions or the guy down the street killing you when he discovers your business deal has gone bad.

Law is not possible if you can simply secede when you get pissy. Such a society would have no recourse to prevent people from deciding they have the freedom to take your freedom. Any benefit from this vague spontaneous possibility is heavily outweighed by the costs of lawlessness. Just look at the Police Strike of Montreal and ensuing Murray-Hill riots if you want a microcosm of what lawlessness looks like. Or better yet, a trip to Somalia.

Democracy is undoubtedly the most fair system we have. It allows the population to self-correct if it views the country is headed is the wrong direction.

Regardless, this whole exchange is pointless as you still haven't listed one successful anarchy.

vincevonvice

Democratic Republics have survived for hundreds of years all while preserving their citizens' rights and liberties through constitutional law. Not only that, they enable the citizenry to direct their own fates in just and fair elections. As a result Democracies are the most free, most prosperous and most stable nations in the world:

Social Democracies were found to be the most prosperous nations in the world as compiled by the Legatum Index.

Democratic Republics as well as Social Democracies were also the most economically free as concluded by the right-wing Heritage group.

They were also the happiest as found by the non-partisan OECD.

And their state-managed Universal Health Care yielded the most effective results while living longest.

So why is anarchy better?

vincevonvice

TROPHY CASE

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