Brussels wants e-identities for EU citizens

knuxgen · 2012-05-26T00:49:07.827725+00:00

No social security number, no passport, no credit check, nothing at all, never? Impossible. Somewhere in the chain you gave data found in a government database.

krattr · 2012-05-26T00:07:19.428565+00:00

The poem (in German):

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/gedicht-von-guenter-grass-zur-griechenland-krise-europas-schande-1.1366941

Google translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?langpair=de|en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sueddeutsche.de%2Fkultur%2Fgedicht-von-guenter-grass-zur-griechenland-krise-europas-schande-1.1366941

well_it_looks_like · 2012-05-25T23:23:39.570260+00:00

It's not that difficult. You're on Reddit. She is wearing a Reddit shirt. You already have a conversation starter. The worst that could happen is free karma. Now speak. To her.

JackIsidore · 2012-05-25T21:54:16.045534+00:00

"she has more sympathy for children deprived of decent schooling in sub-Saharan Africa than for many of those facing poverty in Athens"

How cute is this? Lagarde, who gladly gets paid with money coming from countries with children living in slums, discriminates between starving children. How about putting a sign with Zeus' thunder on starving little Greeks? Surely, it would be easier to sort them out, while on their trip to the gas chamber.

Before someone calls me on what was written above, caveat lector: I was against this moronic "bailout" plan from the beginning.

krattr · 2012-05-25T21:39:13.313737+00:00

The link for this post (top of the page) was for the live streaming. The event ended 2 hours ago. It's now midnight in Athens, so don't expect an instant upload, the hall's employees have to get some sleep. :)

krattr · 2012-05-25T21:31:58.146668+00:00

You left your comment about 25 minutes ago. The post was submitted 8 hours ago, saying that the event will start in 3 hours. If you clicked the link with time zone calculations, you'd see that the event was scheduled for 18:30 local time, which is 11:30 East Coast Time. The current East Coast Time is 17:30.

In other words, you're late. Not telling you the result, because you might want to watch the video they'll upload. Keep checking here:

http://www.sgt.gr/en/

krattr · 2012-05-25T21:20:47.099837+00:00

I voted for the City. This was not an easy decision, but the whole point was to judge him according to the laws and the conditions of his time, no matter how harsh or absurd they might seem now. Given his stance during the trial, I think that Socrates also voted against himself, in his own inimitable way. What mattered was the will of the City, its ability to live and breathe like a single organism; not inherently good, not inherently bad, but unbreakable. Athens was in political turmoil during this period, Benaki got it right: for the City, against the death penalty.

Of course, with our current laws and his influence over our way of thinking, it would be crazy to vote against him, unless if we found new evidence about his support for the oligarchs.

knuxgen · 2012-05-25T21:07:21.376940+00:00

You gave at least one (1) piece of information that is tied to a government authority.

anabolic · 2012-05-25T14:27:18.790539+00:00

Bloomberg had decided to go with what had been payed at the end of 2011

Which is clearly not the case, unless if we change the rules of Addition, and the rules of the English language. Greece has received €150b in official loans by now (IMF included). Greece didn't receive €340b in official loans by now. Greece won't receive €340b in official loans, in total, in the foreseeable future.

[It's completely wrong to add "€100bn default on debt held by banks".] It certainly is

I'm glad that we now agree.

Whether those €100bn should be included in the €340bn total depends on how you look at it.

It doesn't.

This amount isn't a loan, official or unofficial. It's a reduction of some of Greece's debt, held by private bondholders, via a bond swap with these people/institutions. It's not a matter of how person X or newspaper Y wants to "count" it. What happened is perfectly clear, the details are found in my previous comment.

If you tried that for banks, you'd probably find some other countries you could add

What you need about Greek banks is written above. I mentioned France because they had the largest exposure, and they were bailed out too. It's not only Germany. But what you're saying about contribution per person does not apply in this case, because there are countries that were nowhere near France's exposure, but had a contribution per person larger than Germany's, for example.

knuxgen · 2012-05-25T14:02:08.299927+00:00

you either need a utility bill, drivers license, passport, birth certificate or previous bank details

In your name. Which means that you own a house or rent a flat, in your name. You signed a contract, in your name. Someone had to verify that you are who you say you are, when signing this contract. In the end, you had to use at least one (1) document issued by a government authority. The only way to escape this would be the adoption of Anarchism. Why is this so obvious for 99% of the rest of the world?

For getting a job you only need a tax number.

And you still need proof of identity. Which brings us to the use of one of the above documents.

I will never understand your way of thinking. IDs will reduce identity theft. It's not that different to present an ID instead of a utility bill. You just show it to another person and that's it. You won't be swallowed by an imaginary Big Brother. I would worry more about CCTVs around you, because you don't control them.

krattr · 2012-05-25T12:30:55.089206+00:00

Starting in 3 hours. Streaming in Greek/English/French.

The Court:

Lord Justice Richard Aikens, Judge, member of the Court of Appeal of England and Wales (UK)
Sophie-Caroline De Margerie, member of the Conseil d’Etat (France)
Pierre Delvolvé, member of the Academy of Moral and Political Sciences (France)
Dr. Giusep Nay, Dr. iur., former President of the Federal Court of Switzerland (Switzerland)
Loretta Preska, Chief Judge of the Southern District of New York (USA)
Anna Psarouda-Benaki, Professor emerita of Criminal Law, former chair of Hellenic Parliament (Greece)
Vasileios Rigas, former Vice President of the Athens Supreme Court (Greece)
Sir Stephen Sedley, member of the Court of Appeal of England and Wales (UK)
François Terré, member of the Academy of Moral and Political Sciences (France)
Harm Peter Westermann, Law Professor, University of Tubingen (Germany)

Counsels for the City of Athens:

Professor Ilias Anagnostopoulos, Assistant Professor of Criminal and Forensic Studies (University of Athens), Supreme Court lawyer (Greece)
Dr. Anthony Papadimitriou, Barrister, Esq., President, Onassis Foundation (Greece)

Counsels for Socrates:

Michael Beloff, QC, Barrister (UK)
Patrick Simon, Barrister (France)

krattr · 2012-05-25T12:28:11.338579+00:00

:)

OK, already in /r/law.

krattr · 2012-05-25T12:27:06.411890+00:00

Need help with time zone calculations? Click below.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=The+New+Trial+of+Socrates&iso=20120525T1830&p1=26

The Court:

Lord Justice Richard Aikens, Judge, member of the Court of Appeal of England and Wales (UK)
Sophie-Caroline De Margerie, member of the Conseil d’Etat (France)
Pierre Delvolvé, member of the Academy of Moral and Political Sciences (France)
Dr. Giusep Nay, Dr. iur., former President of the Federal Court of Switzerland (Switzerland)
Loretta Preska, Chief Judge of the Southern District of New York (USA)
Anna Psarouda-Benaki, Professor emerita of Criminal Law, former chair of Hellenic Parliament (Greece)
Vasileios Rigas, former Vice President of the Athens Supreme Court (Greece)
Sir Stephen Sedley, member of the Court of Appeal of England and Wales (UK)
François Terré, member of the Academy of Moral and Political Sciences (France)
Harm Peter Westermann, Law Professor, University of Tubingen (Germany)

Counsels for the City of Athens:

Professor Ilias Anagnostopoulos, Assistant Professor of Criminal and Forensic Studies (University of Athens), Supreme Court lawyer (Greece)
Dr. Anthony Papadimitriou, Barrister, Esq., President, Onassis Foundation (Greece)

Counsels for Socrates:

Michael Beloff, QC, Barrister (UK)
Patrick Simon, Barrister (France)

krattr · 2012-05-25T12:17:51.481847+00:00

Not exactly news material. Already in /r/philosophy, maybe suitable for /r/law or /r/lawschool.

krattr · 2012-05-25T11:23:03.762328+00:00

Need help with time zone calculations? Click below.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=The+New+Trial+of+Socrates&iso=20120525T1830&p1=26

tl;dr: 18:30 in Athens, 17:30 in Central Europe, 16:30 Pint Time.

anabolic · 2012-05-25T11:04:11.874746+00:00

Bloomberg wrote:

Greece has received a total of about 340 billion euros in official loans

You wrote:

Those [340 billions] consist of €30bn from the IMF, €80bn from the Greek Loan Facility, €130bn from the EFSF, and the €100bn default on debt held by banks.

EU wrote:

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=DOC/12/6&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

Brussels, 24 May 2012

...

The eurozone has shown considerable solidarity, having already disbursed together with the IMF nearly 150 billion euros in support of Greece since 2010.

It's completely wrong to add "€100bn default on debt held by banks". This was a bond swap proposal to private investors, not an official loan. These money were not held by banks only, and many bondholders bought old bonds at low prices, making a decent profit.

Regarding the "€130 billion bailout", here's what happened/will happen.

1) Greece received €35.5 billion in EFSF bonds. That was used to lure private investors to take up the bond swap.

2) €23-50 billions are supposed to be used to recapitalise Greece’s banks. Cue bank runs due to unfortunate statements by third rate unelected Eurocrats, add up banks' losses due to the bond swap.

(There's also a beautiful story that must always be told about the swap. Initially, Germany didn't want it. Others did. Then Germany did want it. Others didn't. After the swap, Germany also didn't. Why? Germany just realised that many Greek entities, other than banks, held Greek bonds. Now, these entities need state funding due to their losses. Not to mention the thousands of Greek citizens that were forced to accept the deal, lost more than half of their money, and can't now pay for their other obligations. Another burden for the tax authorities.)

3) €44.5-71.5 billions might be paid in direct loans, partly funded by the IMF.

Next week, Greek banks are about to receive €18 billions (point 2). From the "first bailout", if I'm not mistaken, Greece received €87 out of €110 billions.

As you see, you're both wrong about Greece.

Now, about Germany, despite some mistakes, they do have a point. Personally, I would add France to the mix.

krattr · 2012-05-25T10:32:44.252184+00:00

ECB is banned from monetising Euro members debts ... ECB cannot lend at loss

That's why the level of hypocrisy is mind-boggling. In reality, ECB did monetise state debts, and did lend at loss. We're just pretending that it didn't happen, for the sake of Germany's constitutional court. :)

anabolic · 2012-05-25T10:24:30.369876+00:00

Greece has not "received" 340 billion euros. Greece will not "receive" 340 billion euros. Clear enough?

anabolic · 1 day

From the article:

By comparison, Greece has received a total of about 340 billion euros in official loans to recapitalize its banks, replace fleeing capital, restructure its debts and help its government make ends meet.

Where do they get their numbers? Straight from the horse's mouth:

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=DOC/12/6&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

The eurozone has shown considerable solidarity, having already disbursed together with the IMF nearly 150 billion euros in support of Greece since 2010.

Even by adding future disbursements, Greece is nowhere near the 340 billions in total.

executivemonkey · 1 day

British spelling, quasi-American pronunciation (can't escape media's influence).

executivemonkey · 1 day

French are notorious for doing that, inside France. That's why it's amusing to see them trying to communicate in broken English outside their country. I like to torture them, letting them sweat it through, and then deliver a response in perfect French. :)

executivemonkey · 1 day

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17892521

Learning a second language can boost brain power, scientists believe.

krattr

TROPHY CASE

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