Can Quebec redditors stop treating the "Rest Of Canada" as a monolithic bloc? There are issues where Quebec agrees with the "RoC" against the West, and issues where BC and Quebec are more similar than BC and Alberta. Newspaper editorials written in Toronto are not the "RoC".

beeblez · 2012-05-25T20:34:37.763980+00:00

At the same time I'd encourage "the rest of Canada" not to view Quebec as one monolithic entity either.

nerrull · 2012-05-25T18:35:56.933429+00:00

Quebec is hurting our image abroad?

I was under the impression that large popular protests bolstered the image of nations.

I certainly think more of the Greeks for bothering to turn off their TVs and go out and make their voices heard and some American media has been almost awestruck at Quebec's protests.

WildFireca · 2012-05-25T18:32:37.418475+00:00

I'm down for that...

Ontario tuition is the highest in the country, we legitimately have a lot more to gripe about.

WildFireca · 2012-05-25T18:31:23.592626+00:00

To clarify adaminc's point, the Ontario 30% tuition rebate applies only to the following class of people: students whose parents fall in low-middle income who have been out of high school for less than four years and are applying as dependents of their parents.

Mature students are out. Students estranged from their parents are out...

bnxi · 2012-05-25T18:13:19.479137+00:00

Yeah, Ontario specifically IIRC, I'm still trying to find the link.

http://freeeducationmontreal.org/libraryfiles/StatsCan%20-%20Frenette%20-%20Why%20Are%20Youth%20from%20Lower-income%20Families%20Less%20Likely%20to%20Attend%20University.pdf

This is a different study, and includes students who simply didn't do well in high school, etc.

Finally, and not surprisingly, youth from lower income families are more likely to report being financially constrained than others (13.4% compared to 5.9%).

bnxi · 2012-05-25T18:10:38.438719+00:00

No, I didn't say that.

I said degrees are "a primary means of social and economic advancement".

I just don't particularly like the idea that a Canadian from a poor background is subtly but effectively (the rate is less than half that for rich Canadians, after all!) excluded from university education.

I think the poor ought to have just as much likelihood of becoming doctors, lawyers or academics as the rich. For that matter, I think in an ideal society the children of the rich ideally ought to be just as likely to become tradesmen.

bnxi · 2012-05-25T18:08:09.597273+00:00

But are current tuition rates stopping poor students from going to school? I don't think so.

For the life of me I can't find the link, but I remember a poll/study that suggested that for poor students who did well in high school but didn't attend university, the single largest reason (~70%) that was given by them was the cost / requirement to impose large amounts of debt.

restlys · 2012-05-25T07:54:40.439043+00:00

Anecdotally speaking, both my parents dropped out of high school but proceeded to work up the corporate ladder.

My mother at a financial company, father for the city government, from clerk and manual labour positions into middle management and mid-level positions.

Both remaining employed full-time with their employers for 20+ years and even early on, when earning only somewhat more than minimum wage, their salaries were sufficient to cover a mortgage on a nice home in Toronto.

Job security, working up through the ranks, decent buying power for the lower classes... that's all gone. I have no doubt that today at my mother's prior employer they now hire straight-out-of-uni for managerial roles and mail clerk is a completely dead-end part-time no-benefits position.

bnxi · 2012-05-25T07:44:50.819400+00:00

but why should degrees be free?

Because if they're not, then a primary means of social and economic advancement becomes closed off for the poor which will just entrench the income inequality in this nation even further.

The simple reality is that while someone who grew up in the bottom income quartile (under $33,000) of income has a 19% chance of graduating university, at the same time someone from the top quartile ($67,000 and over) has a 39% likelihood of graduating from university, or more than 2x as likely as the poorest Canadians.

I see this as a very serious problem which runs directly counter to ideals of egalitarianism and equality of opportunity.

Growing up poor offers enough hardships for a person's potential performance in school and then university that I see no reason why we should throw the spectre of crippling debt on top as just yet another deterrent.

I don't actually think tuition should be free, I think it should be a reasonable, symbolic amount that serves to discourage people from attending just for the sake of attending, perhaps ~$1000 / term.

arte_misia · 2012-05-24T22:53:28.411769+00:00

Japanese arranged marriage is more like "Hey, you really should marry this guy, we (your family) think he'll be a great match and we'll be really sad if you don't."

A woman may be pressured by social expectations somewhat but she always retains the legal (and usually the practical ability even within the family) to simply say "No".

arte_misia · 2012-05-24T22:51:35.283545+00:00

Many nations enforce certain serious offences extraterritorially.

e.g., Canadian law allows the prosecution of murder, genocide, crimes against humanity and torture regardless of where the crime occurred.

jaebigdong · 2012-05-24T22:47:29.377897+00:00

I'd never be able to afford medical care in the USA.

I'd much rather wait a few hours in the ER to get my sprained wrist looked at, then die from no care at all.

barnshooter · 2012-05-24T22:44:19.490647+00:00

This is the same fellow that proposed assassinating Julian Assange.

"I think Assange should be assassinated, actually," Flanagan said with a laugh, and when asked to expand upon his answer, added that he "wouldn't be unhappy" if Assange "disappeared."

He later retracted it of course, and it probably was just an off the cuff remark.

But that shows the sort of commentator he is -- he says shocking things for attention.

Ignore and move on.

truelaw · 1 day

No, not particularly. I broadly agree with the students that education costs should rise with inflation.

There is so much corruption and waste, and rather than address that, the government wants to throw money at the problem and they want students to pay for it, no less.

Funding per student (public + private) in Quebec is already higher than the rest of Canada yet they need more???

Many of the students don't want the government to cover the new costs, they think the cost is fraudulent to begin with.

I would have thought anti-corruption and anti-waste attitudes would be popular with all Canadians!

truelaw · 1 day

Per capita, you should be hating on PEI.

Also as demonstrated here on Reddit time and time again, equalization payments are not very pertinent to the tuition debate.

perogies · 1 day

With loi 78 and all it's no longer just about tuition.

Also your argument is terrible. Some private American unis charge upwards of $50,000. So if they raised Ontario's tuition by 83% should we all go, oh, at least it's not as bad as the USA!

Chevellephreak · 1 day

This is gonna get struck down very quickly.

(3.) Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election of members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein.

And there are no exceptions on this.

The courts have previously struck down prohibitions on convicted criminals voting, then prohibitions on even those currently in prison voting.

PogoPoutine · 1 day

I do think the emotions of the strikers and people sympathetic to them have become more general.

People are no longer simply protesting tuition, but corruption, stagnant wages, a government that seems to rarely listen, anti-union sentiments, and now loi 78 on top of it all which just makes it seem like we live in an increasingly authoritarian society.

For example, the CP strike is unrelated, yet it doesn't feel unrelated.

I'm not really sure how this will end but there is a lot of discontent and it seems to be spreading.

eyeofthestorm · 1 day

Everyone is (rightfully) freaking out about this. I imagine a large majority of Canadians think it's a bad thing.

And yet when proposals are made that would curb the increase in inequality, such as increasing the amount of welfare and making it easier to qualify, more powers for unions, increasing the minimum wage, and yes even the Quebec tuition issue... many people balk. Probably a huge overlap between that and the same people who think this sort of gap is terrible.

You can't eat your cake and have it too.

nutella0 · 1 day

What the hell is with these mass arrests?

Over 1000 at the G20, now 400+ in one night in Montreal.

For context, during the 1970 October Crisis a total of 465 people were arrested, and that was for a government (that rightly or wrongly) believed armed insurrection was imminent. That held the record until the G20...

phukunewb · 1 day

Not really surprising considering that the most entitled generation in history has no concept of the economy or the real world.

You mean the boomers and generation right after the boomers in denial about how much more education costs the current student generation compared to what they themselves paid?

http://i.imgur.com/oAZyz.jpg

rsarector · 1 day

I assume it was instantaneous upon birth, but I'm not too sure about the specifics.

FollowerofLoki · 1 day

It's pretty much the modern definition.

There have been so, so many abuses in the area of mental health just because people didn't conform, were eccentric or otherwise were happy and functional but people thought something was wrong with them anyway (homosexuality historically is a good example). The past half-century has shown a large shift to a new definition of mental illness in part because of those abuses.

The DSM-IV says:

"a clinically significant behavioral or psychological syndrome or pattern that occurs in an individual,...is associated with present distress...or disability...or with a significant increased risk of suffering"

FollowerofLoki · 1 day

There's a difference between "eccentricity"/"not normal" and "mental illness".

A mental illness causes either anguish and suffering for the afflicted person or some form of impairment in basic living (unable to work/interact with people/feed yourself/etc.).

Homosexuality is more like painting every wall in your home fluorescent green and refusing to eat every other Cheerio you pull out of the box. It's different from most people, but it's not harmful in itself. If the person is leading a happy, fulfilling life then what's the problem?

Would willingly getting a vasectomy count as a mental illness, if not reproducing is an illness?

Tritonio · 1 day

Why is he being downvoted?

Devaluating currency is a very powerful tool and one of the major problems we're seeing in Europe is economies with radically different priorities (such as Germany and Greece) have conflicting interests with regards to their currencies, hence part of the crisis.

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