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[–]atomfullereneAnimal Behavior/Marine Biology 32 points33 points ago

Convergence is sort of a matter of "if all your problems are nails, you'll probably wind up using some sort of hammer".

[–]forever_erraticEntomology|Biological Control 5 points6 points ago

This is a good analogy.

It is also important to think about simpler examples than flying, which I agree can seem amazingly improbable (even though improbable != impossible, obviously).

But what about the ability to move in general? Clearly, this is a useful thing to do, and organisms throughout all domains of life have convergently evolved the ability to move. Similarly, the ability to sense things in the environment is pretty important and not surprisingly, almost all organisms have evolved a way to do this - many of the methods of which do not share common ancestry.

Once you start to see how selective pressures can lead to "obvious" convergence, more complex examples can be easier to understand.

[–]manateetanam 1 point2 points ago*

If human tool development is parallel to biological evolution, there are even more examples of convergence.

[–]hyruli 10 points11 points ago

Only that there are certain survival/hunting/reproduction methods which are potentially very effective, and hence different evolutionary paths are likely to lead to them.

[–]Anoos92[S] 3 points4 points ago

Could intelligence be one of those potentially effective methods ?

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[–]MigratedCoconut 3 points4 points ago

From what I've heard, a major disadvantage of high level intelligence is (relatively) large amount of energy devoted to thought. Is that correct?

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[–]tadrinth 2 points3 points ago

This makes complete sense, but I don't know of any examples. Can you provide some?

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[–]ThatUsernameWasTaken 1 point2 points ago

Would it be possible to breed intelligence into a species in this manner? Not necessarily cognizance, but some 'better' form of intelligence than the species previously had.

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[–]ThatUsernameWasTaken 0 points1 point ago

Thanks! That's essentially what I was looking for. From what I understand the only good definition of "better" in an evolutionary system would be "more able to survive in its given environment." For intelligence though, I was thinking along the lines of "Better able to (intentionally?) manipulate its given environment to a wider range of purposes." Though, this is of course an extremely rough definition. The mad scientist in me was just (implausibly) dreaming of a way to breed 'smarter' companions from socially intelligent species of the kind we usually keep as pets (dogs, cats, [other] primates). I'd read about the domestication of the wild Silver Fox and was wondering if a similar experiment might be run for intelligence, instead of 'kindness'. As you said, though, there's likely to be (currently) insurmountable barriers, given the relative complexity of intelligence vs a single behavioral trait.

[–]ser_rolly_duckfield 6 points7 points ago

Convergence implies similar selective pressures. Evolution doesn't have a goal in the sense that we as conscious humans have goals, but it does have a consistent effect that can be likened to one: it optimizes organisms for reproduction in their environment.

[–]Volpethrope 5 points6 points ago

Round peg fits round hole. Similar problems will generally be overcome by similar solutions. Something that is advantageous to one branch of life can be advantageous to another.

[–]MunkeyBlue 4 points5 points ago

... that being able to fly is useful.

[–]iorgfeflkdCondensed matter|Biophysics|Relativity 2 points3 points ago

If you're up for a read, there are people working on simulations of evolution that attempt to explain convergence.

http://dev.biologists.org/content/137/14/2385.full

[–]shelanman -2 points-1 points ago

a local maximum, I would say.