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[–]Helpful_Table_Maker 1889 points1890 points ago

Thank you for this very interesting IAMA!

Questions Answers
What creepy stuff went on? Spying on players. Getting intimate gaming data, their habits, their networks, and how to effectively monetize given X. Another issue was skewing gameplay for the sake of profit, example; I actually resorted to BAD MATH, to make the case for making a feature more fun. At the end of one sprint, a QA dude was complaining about the drop rate of a specific item being absurdly insane, and therefore UnFun. I looked at the code, and tweaked some values, gave it back to QA guy, and fun was restored. Product Manager overrides this, goes for unfun, yet more profitable version.
What are some of the 'good things' that Zynga did, examples? An awesome chowhall for food. 2 meals a day. Arcade machines all over the campus. Living in the carcass of the old SEGA building. Brogrammers committing bad XML and pretending to be programmers. (entertainment value) Designers and Artists committing bad XML. (moar entertainment value)
Just how data driven is Zynga? How much do the PMs rely on metrics to craft the games? EVERYTHING. I have a hook into every piece of new data and user involved feature. I have to report the data at all times. PMs rely on metrics more for office politics, not science, not game design. Zynga is a marketing company, not a games company.
Why did you pull Word Challenge offline? Most likely, if a game released doesn't match some metric or escalating population, it gets pulled off. Or, they are getting sued. It's always these two scenarios. They've released unstable code for public consumption, REGULARLY.
What was your job title? "Software Engineer". That should have been revised to "ActionScript Content Cruncher" though.
What is your opinion on the tiny tower vs. dream heights? Tiny Tower + D Heights is all standard operating procedure here. If you can't buy em, clone em. Even the core technology for FarmVille (MyMiniLife), was bought. The only "homegrown" codebases at Zynga is MafiaWars2 and maybe Poker, the rest of their tech was just bought from small studios. Lookup Dextrose Engine. To me, that's utterly creepy. They try to choke out the competition by gating all these engines and tech.
What languages did you code in at Zynga? PHP, ActionScript, Javascript.

[–]ryanispomp 236 points237 points ago

I love you on my PC, but I'm sad when I'm on my phone :( http://www.imgur.com/QqXMA.jpg

[–]Rotab 116 points117 points ago

[–]heart-on 20 points21 points ago

spoilers aren't phone-friendly either. just highlighted blue text with a "spoiler" link underneath it...

[–]TacticalSandwich 348 points349 points ago

People like you restore my faith in humanity. Here's to you Mr. Helpful_Table_Maker!

[–]ItLurksInTheDark 194 points195 points ago

I heard that in the Budweiser "Real Men of Genius" voice.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 292 points293 points ago

"REAL SILICON VALLEY HEROES"

"Mr. ActionScript CODING COWBOY!"

[–]suninabox 78 points79 points ago

The next time someone says some trivial bullshit on reddit restored their faith in humanity, I'm going to burn down an orphanage and post it to /r/RandomActsOfKindness

[–]Slexx 46 points47 points ago

Just tagged you as "will use any excuse to burn down an orphanage."

[–]cafguy 231 points232 points ago

it's like the games are playing you

[–]mercenary-games[S] 141 points142 points ago

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.

[–]cafguy 45 points46 points ago

For what it is worth most social media / social gaming seems to me to be designed around the basic concepts of a Skinner Box: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber

[–]nepthar 6 points7 points ago

I believe I once heard that Zynga does indeed hire psychology PhDs to help nail down details like the "Hey, your crops are dying! Come water them!"-type messages.

[–]siskoraban 9 points10 points ago

When what you're getting is free, you are what's for sale.

[–]Infestinatoria 136 points137 points ago

What creepy stuff went on?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 224 points225 points ago

Ill add more to the creepy stuff, specifically concerning contractor workers.

Z treats them like second citizen employees, they almost have no feedback or say on their work schedule. I've seen people waiting to turn full time, but only spend more time as a contractor because of office politics.

Worst of all; they are NOT welcome to company events, they are openly excluded from them. Yet, they want them to work twice as hard as regular full timers.

[–]Eradic 116 points117 points ago

If contractors are invited to company events isn't there laws that deem them to no longer be contractors and the company will be forced to pay for their benefits?

[–]latestcraze 101 points102 points ago*

Yes. This is true. There was a huge case with Microsoft (?) back in the 80's or early 90's. The contractors who were allowed to go to company events and parties sued saying that they were being "treated as employees" so they deserved to be employees.

[–]busterbcook 406 points407 points ago

It's like giving a sock to a house elf.

[–]chrysaora 104 points105 points ago

...Oh my god this just made me understand all of the laws around contractors SO MUCH BETTER.

[–]daychilde 5 points6 points ago

You're an employee, Harry!

[–]mercenary-games[S] 86 points87 points ago

I have no idea on that man.

Seriously, the contractors worked harder then most of the fulltime staff.

It's difficult to see high school mentality in a "professional" environment.

[–]Social_Disposable 80 points81 points ago

I'm definitely seeing this at my company. We have a huge staff of contractors, some of whom have been here 9 months or more, but they don't get invited to events, don't get free perks, and don't get to attend important game team meetings. It's kind of like, "Use these guys, rely on them, and get them to do lots of work, but whatever you do, don't make friends with them!"

[–]mercenary-games[S] 50 points51 points ago

I've never understood that attitude.

[–]sterling2505 84 points85 points ago

If you treat contractors like regular employees, they may have a legal claim to other employee benefits (for example, stock grants). There have been legal cases like this in the past - Microsoft was famously sued over this issue a decade ago in a class-action suit, for example.

So now, HR departments at many companies have guidelines that exclude contractors. Managers don't offer coaching or career advice to contractors, and contractors are typically exluded from morale events, in order to emphasize that contractors are not employees.

Form your own opinion about whether this sucks and whose fault it is. But those are the facts.

[–]throwaway_MSFT 7 points8 points ago

It wasn't (just) that MS was inviting contractors to parties, it's that they were hired on a recurring basis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permatemp

Nowdays we use a lot fewer contractors (my team has zero currently). If you do want to take a contractor to a morale event you work with the contract agency. The agency can decide to pay for their contractor's attendance or not.

[–]genius_in_progress 49 points50 points ago

I believe companies are legally required to treat contractors differently from regular employees. Excluding them from company events is the norm. I think it has to do with taxes. If contractors get the same treatment as full time employees, then the IRS is going to claim that they really ARE full time employees and the company would be liable fro payroll taxes, etc...

[–]mercenary-games[S] 113 points114 points ago

Spying on players. Getting intimate gaming data, their habits, their networks, and how to effectively monetize given X.

Another issue was skewing gameplay for the sake of profit, example; I actually resorted to BAD MATH, to make the case for making a feature more fun. At the end of one sprint, a QA dude was complaining about the drop rate of a specific item being absurdly insane, and therefore UnFun. I looked at the code, and tweaked some values, gave it back to QA guy, and fun was restored. Product Manager overrides this, goes for unfun, yet more profitable version.

[–]fiftyacorns 46 points47 points ago

Is it really spying? Users agree to the terms - and the right to use the data is one of them. Basically users trade this information for free games/services

[–]mercenary-games[S] 128 points129 points ago*

Ok. Here's another example;

Internal metrics researchers often give studio wide talks on what trends are going on. They've basically tracked down very popular players and also players who've spent an excess of 10k into the game.

Zynga often tweaks features to match and maximize for a particular gaming habit. They do this for massive populations of players.

Players are not aware of this. To me, that's a big brother like issue, someone is measuring and monitoring your behavior intimately, and you don't know how that data is going to be used.

[–]SkaterDrew 158 points159 points ago

People have paid over 10k onto farmville and the other games?!?

wait what? You surely can't mean $?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 226 points227 points ago

$.

Zynga Black. That's what they are called.

[–]JabbrWockey 53 points54 points ago

Just... wow.

[–]Rskk 47 points48 points ago

Thats fricken nuts. I can see spending 10$ here and there. But 10k is wack

[–]internet_name 40 points41 points ago

Approximately what percentage of the Zynga games population do they constitute?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 134 points135 points ago

5%.

They are the "hardcore" crowd Zynga caters too. Every other player is treated as a spammer.

[–]altCognito 118 points119 points ago

I ran a bot for a long time on farmville years ago, why didn't they ever crack down on that stuff?

the shame of admitting I played farmville, let alone a bot to play farmville is somewhat debilitating

[–]treggify 59 points60 points ago

I think botting it is better because you didn't actually play. lol

[–]ITACLTIUNWOKTHWG 27 points28 points ago

My father wrote a bot for Sorority Life (Mafia Wars for girls. Hence a hell of a lot more drama.) About a year ago someone from Zynga contacted him and offered him a job. They were entirely aware he had made a bot (and other bots looked like my little ponies standing next to a velocorapter), but honestly, they don't care. As long as he wasn't magically stealing money or ruining profit they let him do as he wished.

[–]someguywithanaccount 38 points39 points ago

So 1 in 20 gamers spends over 10k on the game? Or am I reading that wrong? I find that very hard to believe.

[–]intoto 26 points27 points ago

You read it wrong. 1 in 20 gamers spends money on the game. The rest play for free.

Of those that spend money on the game, only a few have spent more than $10k.

[–]Raarsea 11 points12 points ago

What do you mean the big spenders are catered to? Do they get more stuff in game, virtual loot? or more ads to buy virtual loot? or are they flown to SF for a farmville party?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 31 points32 points ago

They design the game purely to fit the needs of the "whales".

Everyone else is treated as an "enabler"; spam messages, beg for tools, etc.

[–]sandman369 22 points23 points ago

Probably not a popular opinion, but I'm convinced that some time in the far future, this kind of thing will be viewed as a form of addiction-feeding-for-profit, i.e. drug-like business. Behavioural addictions (Internet gaming can become one) can be just as bad as drug addictions. Probably worse right now because there's not enough knowledge and acceptance that they are serious and nerve-cell-altering addictions.

[–]Massless 8 points9 points ago

There are people who pay absurd amounts of money for anything. For example, I worked in a movie store in the mall when I was in high school. One year our star customer spent $32,000... for Dvds... in one year at one store.

[–]Rhakan 24 points25 points ago

This makes me feel better about my subscription fees for WoW.

[–]JohnChimpo 128 points129 points ago

How does the creative process work when you are only using data to build a game?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 399 points400 points ago

take out the word "creative".

[–]Senor_Wilson 716 points717 points ago

Ba-zynga.

[–]Marshfellow 131 points132 points ago

I feel like you have been saving that one...

[–]Fix_Lag 14 points15 points ago

boosh

[–]Remy45 116 points117 points ago

What is a "Brogrammer"?

How much of the Facebook users' private info can Zynga actually see, and is any of it in violation of FB's privacy policy?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 231 points232 points ago

FB and Zynga are all in cahoots. Doesn't matter; what Z does, Z gets. It's a cartel. Indie game design will never thrive in FB, because of this culture.

Brogrammers are mostly Silicon Valley / Harvard type douchebags who got into programming. YCombinator drop outs. Years of experience in managed and web languages, but who have no idea how to setup a build system nor work in native code.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]chris15118 11 points12 points ago

It seems like you use "Brogrammer" as an insult. Are you more upset that they deal only in managed code or that they act douchey?

[–]bigspr1ng 24 points25 points ago

It's the programmer that implements the dudeller's designs and later has his work checked by brahlity assurance.

[–]FutureChuck 67 points68 points ago

Quick, give us cheats for FarmVille!!

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]AMcKee 29 points30 points ago

Care to elaborate on those addresses?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 52 points53 points ago

Not at the top of my head.

For recon though, it's fun to see the user blob being sent down the pipe.

Enjoy.

[–]IHaveScrollLockOn 11 points12 points ago

It seems like you're pretty confident about the fact that simply by modifying memory values on the client side, one would be able to cheat at the game. However, any client-server game developer would store the true values on the server, and make the server smart enough to never allow unreasonable data to come in from the client.

I have trouble believing the developers at Zynga would be that bad to always trust data from the Flash client.

[–][deleted] 103 points104 points ago

WHY ARE THE CREATORS OF AGE OF EMPIRES THERE (SOME OF THEM)

WHY?!!?!!?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 118 points119 points ago*

Well, lets go down the list.

Command and Conquer (Lou Castle), Alpha Centauri (Bryan Reynolds), Magic the Gathering, 1st edition (numerous folks).

Tons of other devs from EA.

[–]keyyek 7 points8 points ago

brian reynolds also of Rise of Nations fame. Can you please steal him back for me? Really for all of us.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 8 points9 points ago

Once I can afford him, sure.

[–]edamamefiend 70 points71 points ago

Do you fear any 'consequences' from Zynga's side might arise from this AMA? If I were them I'd fire my lawyer cannons at you and play every nasty card in the game I have. On the other hand, Zynga's target group is probably not on Reddit!

[–]mercenary-games[S] 149 points150 points ago

They would be wise not to cross a Mercenary.

No one fucks with engineers who had access to intimate source code. I left Zynga on fair terms and proper handshakes.

[–]pertsix 40 points41 points ago

You're really not saying anything that isn't already the case at another major programming firm, so you have that going for you.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 39 points40 points ago

That's why enterprise code sucks.

[–]rrwrwx 44 points45 points ago

How do you see Zynga performing in the After Hours Gaming League this season?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 63 points64 points ago*

Those guys are legit. Haven't caught up recently, but they have been practicing for months.

EDITED OUT HARSH LANGUAGE. Sorry, Google and Apple SC2 teams don't deserve that.

[–]mtfw 38 points39 points ago

I had to turn my head to the right to read the letter. :(

[–]mercenary-games[S] 107 points108 points ago

JUST AS PLANNED.

[–]iama842 62 points63 points ago

Worst thing that happened in the office?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 160 points161 points ago

"Color Wars"; company "cheerleading" event.

Stupid shitty memes posted on walls everywhere.

Just imagine a bunch of noobs in /b/ mass bukkakeing your workspace with old memes. There were also incidents of PERMA GLUE being used to paste shitty posters directly on monitor surface.

And they were in "teams", colors. They all treated the contractors like shit in that event.

[–]real_brofessional 177 points178 points ago

i was a contractor for zynga. until they fired me the week of christmas. also 6 days before i qualified for unemployment. so yeah, fuck them they are assholes

[–]mercenary-games[S] 178 points179 points ago

Dude. Remember the shit when Pincus was announcing IPO plans?

They kicked out all contractors off the office, and made em stay outside, while everyone got free chow and booze.

That shit was so wrong.

[–]real_brofessional 111 points112 points ago

Pincus seems like a grade a douche. i heard once that at a meeting they were discussing how to cut costs when one of the girls who brings food up to the execs so they don't have to stand in line for their food like the other employees came in with a whole spread for the meeting. Pincus shouted out "i know, get rid of THAT" and just pointed at the girl and then moved on to the next point.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 93 points94 points ago

The Chow Hall staff at Z are total heroes.

I have doubts about Pincus doing that scenario though, he's devious, but not openly callous.

He is calculating. I respect the man, but not the business.

[–]Awkward_Arab 50 points51 points ago

That is fucked. How did the contractors feel about being shafted like that?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 103 points104 points ago

Most of the contractors are honest kids man. A lot of veteran game devs too. (Yes, I will call contractors DEV. They deserve it.)

It's mostly just like a high school popularity contest.

That's Zyngas corporate culture. "meritocracy" my ass.

[–]Eraser1024 5 points6 points ago*

Have you met Brian Reynolds? He designed Civilization 2, Alpha Centauri and Rise of Nations, and now works for Zynga! A real veteran. How he is holding on in this place?

I'm sad.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 12 points13 points ago

Brian is chief for design.

I don't want his job. He has to deal with so much corporate crap, its unspeakable.

Yes, I did meet him, very cool dude.

[–]OmicsWizard 7 points8 points ago

Speaking of veteran game devs, wtf is up with Brian Reynolds. Civ 2, Gettysburg, Alpha Centauri (oh good lord, SMAC), Rise of Nations to ...Frontierville? Fucking seriously?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 8 points9 points ago

Hey. There were tons of features in Frontier that werent seen anywhere else.

Brian was part of an east coast studio that was bought by Zynga.

[–]ansam 69 points70 points ago

Stupid shitty memes posted on walls everywhere.

Sounds like reddit.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 66 points67 points ago

with no class, and while you are debugging some mangled brogrammer shit.

[–]ansam 211 points212 points ago

I love that term, "brogrammer". I'm picturing a bunch of fit white guys (mostly named Chad, Chet, or Brett) in polos with the collars popped getting psyched about coding. "Bro, spot me while my code compiles!".

[–]mercenary-games[S] 182 points183 points ago

this happened.

Srsly. it does.

[–]tdk2fe 22 points23 points ago*

How long does it take for javascript, actionscript, and PHP to compile?

Edit: Sounded snarky without context - you mentioned before that these were the languages you worked with. I was wondering if other people actually used this as an excuse to slack off at Zynga.

[–]StreetSweeperArias 40 points41 points ago

I loved duels.com, then challenge games sold itself to zynga. All their games soon died and now duels, their best game, is dead too.

Duels.com is the best game zynga has and they don't even know they own it. The site is still up but no one can log on because the last time it crashed no one bothered starting it back up correctly. I paid for lifetime membership but can't log on and no one at zynga support even knows the game exists.

Fuck Zynga and Fuck Challenge Games.

[–]nodecore 17 points18 points ago

I'm a co-creator of Doodle or Die - see /r/doodleordie or http://doodleordie.com. The game took off from zero users to thousands daily very quickly and we are concerned Zynga might copy the concept.

Any suggestions?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 32 points33 points ago

Lawyer Up.

Don't talk to lolapps.

Don't talk to Z. Resist the urge to get bought out.

If you want Z to not clone you, make sure you capitalize on your viral stream. That's where they get you. Grow a REAL fanbase, and talk to your players.

[–]Social_Disposable 67 points68 points ago

I'm very glad to see this AMA. I'm at another social game company, and seeing a lot of the same behavior. I was thinking of doing an AMA of my own (and I still might in a few days).

[–]mercenary-games[S] 80 points81 points ago

Please do. Gamers deserve the perspective.

We don't want them to see us as callous robots.

[–]Quaro 80 points81 points ago*

Hows does Zynga see itself in relation to the gaming industry in general? Do the people there see themselves as game designers/artists or psychologists or business people or what?

Is this an accurate summation of how Zynga execs feel about their games?

An ex-drug-dealer (now a video game industry powerbrain) once told me that he doesn’t understand why people buy heroin. The heroin peddler isn’t even doing heroin. Like him or not, when you hear Cliff Bleszinski talk about Gears of War, he sounds — in a good way — like a weed dealer. He sounds like he endorses what he is selling. When you’re in a room with social games guys, the “I never touch the stuff” attitude is so thick you’ll need a box cutter to breathe properly.

http://insertcredit.com/2011/09/22/who-killed-videogames-a-ghost-story/

[–]Social_Disposable 16 points17 points ago

I've definitely found that most social game developers don't play social games. We've seen behind the curtain; we understand the psychology being used against us, and as a result we're not going to sit and wait for a 30-day upgrade or whatever finish. We'll just go play Starcraft.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 94 points95 points ago

Zynga is a marketing company, not a game company.

As soon as they cash out, Pincus will move on, and people internally will frantically try to keep all those codebases intact (because most of the engineers I know will be GONE by the IPO, or when they vest)

[–]mcgerkins 36 points37 points ago

Are there any protocols in place to keep players from getting help using Zynga's support resources, or is it just incompetence?

Alternatively, are there any specific (even secret) methods to getting faster, more accurate support?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 65 points66 points ago

well, you could have schmooze the moderators, thats the best way to get them.

Or be hot looking chick who has an issue.

or. Spend more than 10k US$ on FarmCash. Seriously, they'll even fly you to studio with that.

[–]UncleTogie 6 points7 points ago

Spend more than 10k US$ on FarmCash. Seriously, they'll even fly you to studio with that.

You saw people flown there? O.o

[–]Socially_awkward_pen 50 points51 points ago

•what are the weird creepy things you talked about.

• What is your opinion on the tiny tower vs. dream heights •what was the main reason you quit •did you help design games?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 72 points73 points ago*

Tiny Tower + D Heights is all standard operating procedure here.

If you can't buy em, clone em.

Even the core technology for FarmVille (MyMiniLife), was bought.

The only "homegrown" codebases at Zynga is MafiaWars2 and maybe Poker, the rest of their tech was just bought from small studios. Lookup Dextrose Engine.

To me, that's utterly creepy. They try to choke out the competition by gating all these engine tech.

[–]IainStanford 77 points78 points ago*

I'm starting to think you have a different definition of the word 'creepy'.

And before people react I'm not commenting on right, wrong, normal, ect...just that I don't get 'creepy'...

[–]mercenary-games[S] 111 points112 points ago

Fair point; let me elaborate.

The creepy factor at Z comes when they start designing for "behavior" instead of game design and fun.

Behavior is what they are looking for. Behavior is what they measure, on a massive scale.

It's not about having fun to them, its about monetizing the fun, cloning games, buying indie studios, and suing the shit out of other companies.

THAT is creepy.

[–][deleted] 48 points49 points ago

its also about keeping you pulling the lever, just like with gambling, or WoW. they specifically design games now to play on your desire to get more for less. (like finding random drops in an rpg like WoW or diablo.) killing boars or whatever for a sweet random drop is the same as shaking hands with the one armed bandit.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 181 points182 points ago

Precisely.

I would like to design games to add to a players well being and education. Games enrich lives.

Zynga games, are mostly like a shopping mall. Buy the feature, and that's it. No skill involved.

[–]DamonWayans8282 65 points66 points ago

is Zynga scaling back the spammy stuff? When I first started playing Mafia Wars, everything went to my wall, but in CastleVille it happens very infrequently.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 110 points111 points ago

No they aren't.

They are just compressing that now, and it's made far more efficient.

They always look at your data, no matter what.

[–]bincat 46 points47 points ago*

With "your data" (as in user data) what do they do with it?

Can you give some examples (but not too specific)?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 104 points105 points ago

They will model your behavior and see if that behavior stretches across massive populations.

Then, they will monetize and gate your behavior.

It's all about dopamine boosts when you buy FarmCash.

[–]bincat 40 points41 points ago

Thank you for your quick reply.

For those (such as I) uninitiated, what means 'gate your behavior'?

Do (or how do) they track users off game? Like their friend graphs (even though friends are not in the game)? What do they do with the info?

I've been systematically blocking all friend apps for someone else. Does that keep someone from not giving info to apps such as zynga's?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 78 points79 points ago

Gate == putting some monetization scheme on feature X. Example : "UNLOCK THIS FUCKING FARMHOUSE WITH REDDIT GOLD".

We track the behaviors that provide the highest returns. Zynga also experiments with numerous values over the scale of 100k players, each having their own experiments to best fit a good return.

They track anything you let them, via facebook.

Blocking them is good enough.

[–]koy5 30 points31 points ago*

Basically what the internet phone providers did with data. "People use data a lot." Well there are groups who use it a little, groups who use it a moderate amount, and groups of people that use it a lot. We just have to separate those three demographics into smaller and smaller sub-sections and charge more and more money for smaller and smaller amounts of data. Fucking telecoms piss me off so much, they wont even invest in the technology to accommodate the data needs of all their customers because you can't sell something you have a greater supply of for more money.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 25 points26 points ago

Telecomms don't have the advantage of game design dopamine boosters.

[–]koy5 26 points27 points ago

Yes they do, and also the dopamine release of reading reddit. Or the need to look up something on google. Or a billion other things people do on their phones now when they are out and about.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 15 points16 points ago

Touche.

[–]homergonerson 27 points28 points ago

Yep, Words with Friends spams me with shit all the time.

You got 30 points, post it to your wall? You took the lead, post it to your wall? You score is over 300, post it to your wall? You and your friend scored over 600 points total, post it to your wall? You made a move, post it to their wall? You won a game, post it to your wall?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 66 points67 points ago

Zynga trains you to be an attention whore.

[–]homergonerson 26 points27 points ago

I always hit cancel, on every single one. Fuck that shit. Also, on the options for the application on facebook, it says that the options for posting to Facebook for me, and accessing my data any time are optional settings. Remove them? WWF requires you to re-authorize them to these next time you play. Really guys? Why did you even bother? To give me a shred of hope, then take it away?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 41 points42 points ago

Facebook and Zynga are in cahoots. Don't expect it to be easy to remove those apps.

[–]homergonerson 30 points31 points ago

sigh I knew what I was getting into, but I couldn't resist. I like Scrabble.

[–]arasari 6 points7 points ago

Wordfeud!

[–]ghiiirocker1 36 points37 points ago

What the HELL was up with the circus tent that never was in yoville?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 61 points62 points ago

I know q_q

YoVille code base was.... shipped off to India, to die.

[–]ghiiirocker1 8 points9 points ago

do you at least know what was going to happen in it? Also, what was up with all the cyber sex parties in that game?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 9 points10 points ago

No idea.

[–]The_Greetest 53 points54 points ago

Proof?

(just doing what the top bar tells me, it would be easy to get people worked up over Zynga hate)

[–]anonymauz 62 points63 points ago

[–]mercenary-games[S] 27 points28 points ago

Thank you.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 49 points50 points ago

[–]mercenary-games[S] 20 points21 points ago

Proof of what?

[–]puredemo 20 points21 points ago

That you worked for zynga..

[–]jdawggey 27 points28 points ago

Why the fuck are the apps all so awful-looking? I swear I get slapped with a box of fucking crayons every time i open one of the games. Why such a gaudy, over-saturated theme when a matte/minimalist theme would be so much better. I assume because they give no fucks, based on your responses so far..

[–]mercenary-games[S] 31 points32 points ago

because the shitty architecture they bought from small indies gets ESCALATED to production.

When they pile a feature, they pile it on. Doesn't matter what goes on there, as long as there is something to click.

[–]jdawggey 18 points19 points ago

What a shame. I literally can't play Hanging with Friends because of the stupid 3-frame lava waterfall in the fucking background. Makes my eyes sad.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 16 points17 points ago

I really wished I joined the Mobile Team.

They are good guys though. Give them a chance.

[–]Max_Beezly 40 points41 points ago

Why is this NSFW?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 98 points99 points ago

Because some things I've said could get some Zynga contractors fired, for reading it at work.

[–]roger_ranter 33 points34 points ago

Good Guy Mercenary

[–]mercenary-games[S] 12 points13 points ago

so blushing right now.

[–]Low-Far 11 points12 points ago

Why are the games so slow and clunky?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 36 points37 points ago

Flash, being used as a game engine.

And also, all the metrics analysis code on the client side. It actually dwarfs the size of game code.

They. Are. Watching. You.

[–]Quaro 36 points37 points ago

Zynga makes me think of Chris Hecker's 'nightmare scenario' where social game designers exploit human psychology so well they basically create hell on Earth:

I outline a potential Nightmare Scenario based on all the implications of the research going the wrong way for games:

1) make an intrinsically interesting game, congratulations!

2) use extrinsic motivators to make your game better

3) destroy intrinsic motivation to play your game

4) metrics fetishism pushes you towards designs where extrinsic motivation works

http://chrishecker.com/Achievements_Considered_Harmful%3F

[–]mercenary-games[S] 38 points39 points ago*

I lived that, every day.

If game industry had analogs to warfare; Zynga would be the Afghanistan of the game design world.

[–]JaMan51 42 points43 points ago

Do you ever get disgusted by the amounts some people spend on Facebook games? How much have you seen people pay for over the course of a few months, are they crazy amounts?

Also, is there any proof that can be submitted to verify? Whether by the mods to protect your identity or some other means.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 131 points132 points ago

Not crazy, addicted.

I've seen someone pay up to 20k in FrontierVille, paying to get a random-rolled item box. Behavior is similar to gambling addicts.

MafiaWars has seen someone commit up to 100k US$.

I don't hold internal data, if you ever come across a mafia wars employee, they'd be glad to show off those metrics.

[–]Phonetic4 85 points86 points ago

My bowels just emptied themselves.

[–]rfleming 10 points11 points ago

That would be the dopamine.

[–]barfolomew 9 points10 points ago

I've seen someone pay up to 20k in FrontierVille

Holy fucking christ on a crutch.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 14 points15 points ago

thats 20k over the course of one year, not all at once.

[–]randy6784 32 points33 points ago

Not a bad AMA, I've heard horror stories about the blatant copying of games from smaller corps. Did you have a job lined up when you quit or was it that bad that you just walked away?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 78 points79 points ago

I got thrown under the bus of office politics, and refused to be treated as such, so I quit.

I gave nay fuck about having a "job". I can write game engines on my own, and release. I have the tools to do so. I don't need a corporate studio to do the things I love.

When I realized it was all for the $$$, it wasn't worth the deal.

[–]pinpinbo 35 points36 points ago

Good for you.

I was thrown under the bus in a different game company doing social gaming as well.

I wish you all the best. Hope you recover well from this Zynga shit and do what you love.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 50 points51 points ago

You too man.

Fight the Strip Miners. They are ruining the industry and gaming culture as a whole.

If it means working directly for them, and influencing them, DO IT.

Devs should know more, and demand to be treated with respect.

[–]pikmin 75 points76 points ago*

ROWROW FIGHT THE POWAH!

edit: didn't expect that many people to get that reference.

[–]TheBlahrg 6 points7 points ago

I got thrown under the bus of office politics, and refused to be treated as such, so I quit.

What does that mean? What happened?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 7 points8 points ago

Won't discuss that in public, too incriminating, and I don't air out THAT kind of dirty laundry.

[–]ravagedsavage 36 points37 points ago

Link to one thing you have actually done.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 69 points70 points ago

[–]Tambe 29 points30 points ago

Zynga has a reputation for making awful games that are plastered with ads and in many cases, blatant ripoffs. What do Zynga execs think of this reputation, and what do you accredit Zynga's surprising success to?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 51 points52 points ago

They give Nay Fuck about "reputation".

It's all about the metrics. It's all about cashing out for the IPO.

Zynga is a marketing company, not a games company.

[–]mercenary-games[S] 33 points34 points ago

As far as "success", it's all about spreading the game first and getting to the top used app section.

Zynga is the most viral company I know.

[–]markio 9 points10 points ago

Why did you quit?

[–]isdevilis 8 points9 points ago

was zynga a porn site at its start? I remember trying to snag some porn from some zynga site when i was a kid and getting a fucking virus off that shit site idk if it was the same thing

[–]mercenary-games[S] 14 points15 points ago

Not sure, but they made "tool bars".

Google Pincus video talking about his spammer past.

[–]bonestamp 11 points12 points ago

How many hours/week did you typically work? Stress level?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 16 points17 points ago

70.

Stress Level : ORANGE.

[–]bonestamp 7 points8 points ago

Thanks for the reply. Sounds like an interesting place to work but I just checked their job section and it looked like the wage is about $92K. Not enough for 70 hours/week. I hope you get a good offer for your next role. Cheers.

[–]JThompson2441 30 points31 points ago

Just how data driven is Zynga? How much do the PMs rely on metrics to craft the games?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 50 points51 points ago*

EVERYTHING.

I had a hook into every piece of new data and user involved feature. I have to report the data at all times.

PMs rely on metrics more for office politics, not science, not game design.

Zynga is a marketing company, not a games company.

[–]MercenaryBullshit 40 points41 points ago

This guy is full of shit.

I am no longer an employee, but was one at the point when he was removed at the end of last summer. Removed. He was given the choice of either staying for 2 weeks and then leaving, or leaving immediately with 2 weeks' pay. His code was awful, and he was a counterproductive member of the team (and a crude human being to boot). That's why he was canned, not because of "office politics."

The timeline, both his termination and the amount of time he spent with Zynga, fits perfectly. The work he references doing fits, right down to that naked avatar bug (which he created, incidentally). Furthermore, he overuses certain characteristic phrases which I recall distinctly from intra-office chats ("[to give] nay fuck" was annoying then, it's still annoying now).

The bottom line here is that there is a whole lot of lying going on throughout this thread, and despite the disclaimer it is ABSOLUTELY about spite and revenge. I have very mixed feelings about Zynga's business model, and there's a lot of criticism to be had. But the office culture is NOT a feature that deserves all these negative comments. For better or worse, it really is a meritocracy. If you do your work and do it well, it's a spectacular place to be -- and not just because of the headquarters perks.

From all that I've seen, the only negative voices with inside knowledge of Zynga are those who have been removed because they weren't contributing. Say what you will about the business (yes, it's a business) as a whole, but don't let disgruntled ex-employees paint a fallacious picture of the internal culture.

Edit: an -> a

[–]batsnotincluded 14 points15 points ago

I know I'm late to the party here, but I agree with a lot of what you've said.

I'm also a current Zynga employee, though I'm leaving soon because I can't reconcile being a part of the data-driven business model where game cloning is so blatant and unapologetic. But as far as the culture goes, it's really not the sinister, creepy place OP's making it out to be. I'm fairly certain I've never worked directly with the OP, but his attitude is pretty disappointing.

OP -- I managed to dig up your facebook and linkedin profiles just by way of the information you gave in this thread, and I have no doubt that others have as well. This is a shockingly small industry, and like it or not you'll no doubt encounter many of your former colleagues again, whether it's in a job interview, a pitch meeting, or working alongside them again at a different company. You also might meet people who hadn't worked with you before, but simply read this IAMA and didn't appreciate your tone, regardless of their personal opinions on Zynga. Just saying... a 'short apology' won't be enough to counteract it.

[–]zderp 15 points16 points ago*

This!

I am also a z employee. I've been here for well over a year. Merc, you and I had lunch when you first started here. I remember you because you came off as a self-righteous, smug, and egotistical individual and in my head, I was questioning your ability to work well in any team

I'll say that this AMA hits the nail on the head when it comes to the questions about this company's metric-driven business. You also hit it on the head when you mentioned the "if you can't buy them, clone 'em" business model. However, Reddit already knows these things. All you've done now with this AMA is muddy the water by making it seem like your personal problems are pervasive in the company.

There is more bullshit in this AMA than there is AMA...but now Reddit will think its the truth because of this. Thanks a lot.

EDIT: Also, there is a big problem when reddit gets its info from sources who were removed from work. Would reddit be interested in an AMA w/ a current employee? One that isn't motivated by spite and revenge?

[–]tayl0rs 9 points10 points ago

Nothing good can result from you doing an AMA about your current job. If you like your job, don't do it.

[–]Zholtvoi 23 points24 points ago

Do you regret working there?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 51 points52 points ago

Not at all.

The pay was decent, the perks were ok. Lots of lessons learned. My bug hunting repertoire is now far more experienced.

I'm glad for the experience, though I don't appreciate the office politics that comes with it.

[–]Joshter 30 points31 points ago

I'm a pretty big poker player. I go to casino's and play a lot of house tournaments. Sometimes when I'm bored though, I'll play some of the Texas Holdem Zynga poker thing they've got going on with a couple buddies. I've seen some really far out things going on while playing there.

For example, (I don't know if you're a poker guy or not but) I'm frequently, too frequently, seeing, out of the 5 cards, 4 of those cards will be of the same suit. When playing with actual cards, this is a pretty rare thing to come across. I'm wondering if Zynga panders to the crap poker players out there to keep up to user base or if it really is meant to be as random as a fully shuffled deck of real cards. Thanks!

[–]mercenary-games[S] 45 points46 points ago

yeah....the poker thing is kinda of devious.

They shuffle the deck for hundreds of millions of people. Expect stupid results.

[–]mcmurphy1 8 points9 points ago

Please explain what you mean you when you say that they shuffle the deck for hundreds of millions of people. Isn't it simply a random number generator? Why would the number of "shuffles" or the number of people affect anything?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 18 points19 points ago

so theres millions of people playing poker.

An instance of a poker table takes up a significant amount of data. shuffling the deck for millions of poker tables would rape the server.

Instead, have "pre packaged" scenarios... roll them and randomize which scenario comes us. Cheaper.

Can also "construct" scenarios, to add some "drama"

[–]johnsmcjohn 21 points22 points ago

As a former poker dealer I can tell you that presumin their random number generator is legit that over the course of the thousands of hands you can play in a session online you'll see all kinds of weird coincidences. For example I've dealt quads on the board nearly a dozen times and I seriously doubt that most players will see that more than once or twice in their lifetimes.

[–]denttheuniverse 30 points31 points ago

What kind of degree do you have? Did you study programming prior to college? What language did you first dabble in?

[–]mcgerkins 7 points8 points ago

You've mentioned branching off and starting your own studio. Are you hoping to somewhat 'beat them at their own game,' or is it a dream of yours, or is the shit just too cash to pass up, etc?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 25 points26 points ago

I wanna be able to sustain my crews needs; get paid, and deliver games.

I want to work in a sane coding environment, none of this enterprise bullshit.

I don't care about Zynga's "game"; game design is not a race, nor a competition. It's culture, not metrics.

[–]Awkward_Arab 26 points27 points ago

Why is PHP for brogrammers, and what languages should I be focusing on for web development? Any good programming habits you like seeing in the workplace?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 61 points62 points ago

Don't focus on some piece of technology. PHP is "tech", not a language.

Learn C, LisP. And then, find the tools you wanna use. Don't care about languages, just learn how to WRITE better tech.

Webtech is mostly broken, fuck using enterprise builds. Roll your own HTML5 + JS server.

Learn build systems like Hudson. Learn Git. The build system is as important as your content pipeline.

Simplify, simplify, simplify.

[–]Awkward_Arab 21 points22 points ago

Thanks. I'm 25, and just recently started taking web development seriously. If you can recommend any resources on building systems, that would be awesome.

[–]dutchguilder2 11 points12 points ago*

Read "Code Complete" then do what it says. Its 10 years experience rolled into 1 book.

[–]Lamza 25 points26 points ago

How often did you have to deal with other people's shit? For example, newbie programmer commiting non-compiling code/making X crash/etc ?

[–]thatmarksguy 58 points59 points ago

Who the fuck commits non compiled code?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 81 points82 points ago

Ask a Brogrammer.

[–]Senor_Wilson 18 points19 points ago

Do they at least put the compiler error and say it failed to compile in the SVN comment? Or do they think it's funny to cause problems?

I'm a sophomore in college right now as a CS major, and we have a couple of programmers on our classes. One of them is super "Bro like" but is a pretty good programmer. Well at least he's doing well in the Data Structures and Algorithms class :P

[–]mercenary-games[S] 51 points52 points ago

Every, fucking, nanosecond.

Every SVN commit.

Every daily merge.

And no, it's mostly not "newbie" shit. I've seen too many "experienced" web developers pulling off really stupid shit, in prod.

Zynga's engineering population is skewed, a handful of skilled ones trying to tow the line with idiot brogrammers.

[–]Lamza 19 points20 points ago

I know your pain. I've had to install CommitMonitor so I can look at every commit, and check if anything's wrong. It sucks, but that's life. How did you deal with those people?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 26 points27 points ago

I cleaved through their code. I've taken out entire commits.

[–]briannnh 12 points13 points ago

You mentioned you dont believe college degrees are sometimes not the best option, what sorts of alternatives are there?

[–]mercenary-games[S] 26 points27 points ago

Alternative?

Programmers should adopt Journeyman/Apprentice relationships.

Jedi and Padawan.

that's a real education right there.

[–]archaeonflux 7 points8 points ago

So where would someone who doesn't have a job and doesn't have any industry connections due to lack of education/job/networking go to find such a Jedi?

[–]redditmod 6 points7 points ago

Late to the party here but some of what you said contradicts with my experiences as a contractor. You mentioned that the contractors got treated like shit and were excluded from many company parties. Do you know when this practice started? I worked there in 2008-2009 while I was still a student and found that I was encouraged to go to as many of the events as possible, so that I could meet new people and relax a bit. In fact, my supervisor even encouraged me to mark down those events and count them as hours that I had worked! From my experiences, Zynga seemed to treat contractors very well. Not to say that I like Zynga as a company (I left because I did not enjoy the work, was sick of the fragmented and buggy codebase, and wanted to do something more research oriented.) Thanks for the AmA!