A humble request for a Christian perspective on the negative implications of Atheism (Best described as secular humanism)

Olsettres · 3 months

First of all, identifying as a Christian, I very much seem to have the same issues with points 1-4 you listed. I'm in a bit of a grey area on point 5.

I also have a good friend who calls himself an antitheist, is quite into Hitchens and Harris, but yet we still manage to carry on some sort of a friendship outside the realm of religion. At the same time, I have a bunch of fundamentalist Christian friends from my years growing up in a private Christian school. While I disagree with both ends of the spectrum, they're all my friends. I think it might be a little extreme to completely separate yourself from someone who has a different ideology than you. This is hardest for me when dealing with my very conservative friends, but in the end I had to realise that we're all on our own individual journeys and I must not judge too harshly (unless of course they're perpetuating hateful ideology. Then I let my perspective be heard).

To answer your questions:

1) I do find Atheism appealing in that sometimes the concept of existing in some form (soul, whatever) for eternity freaks me out. Sometimes it's better to think that I'll simply fade out. Also, the way in which it would free my life from socio-religious baggage would be so refreshing. I could do whatever I wanted to do without feeling guilty about it.

2) In contrast, sometimes I find Christianity appealing in that the concept of existing forever is very comforting. Even more than that though, I cannot seem to logically conclude for certain that no god exists. I see more evidence for the existence of a God all around me in nature, in the big bang, in our universe, in science. So while I would love to dismiss religion as bullshit, I cannot seem to distance myself from the belief in a god of some sort.

So right now, I'm working out the details of that belief. I'm tending to settle toward Christian Universalism, which has provided me much more compassion, empathy, and hope in my perspective of the world than the strict, fundamentalism background I grew up in.

I just want you to know that while there are very sheltered Christians who can only see through what you call 'the Christian lense' and are unable to see suffering apart from attachment with Christian dogma, there are also those of us who very much identify with the struggles of the oppressed (whether they're minorities, the LGBT community, under-developed countries etc) and wish to help everyone without throwing in messages of certain hellfire and doom. (This is coming from an ex-missionary kid, who has seen first hand many destructive witnessing tactics in 'third world' culture)

ekatya · 3 months

I don't have an issue with atheism. I'm married to an Atheist, but he isn't an anti-theist. He doesn't believe in anything metaphysical, but sees that some people find goodness and hope through faith. He does not approve of hateful or "brainwashing" Christianity, and neither do I. I consider "brainwashing" to mean that it is very exclusive and actively teaches to disregard or work against science and other normal areas of everyday life.

Why am I not an Atheist? I enjoy church, theology, and the Christian philosophy. I cannot say with 100% provable certainty that God exists, that Jesus is the son of God, and that Jesus existed as portrayed in the Gospels, etc. However, I choose to believe this despite the uncertainty and I don't let the uncertainty bother me. I find peace through the church and it offers me a spiritual home that I couldn't find other places.

Part of this is also because of the denomination I am part of. Episcopalians are progressive in their theology, accepting of everyone, and are very laid-back when it comes to faith and belief. We strive to help each other, and those outside the church, to be the best they can be and find our strength through the Bible, the liturgy, and the Book of Common Prayer. Other denominations do not necessarily have this church culture, and it definitely isn't the assumed norm when someone starts talking about Christianity in the USA.

johntheChristian · 3 months

I do not find atheism appalling. It is perfectly understandable position, and any Christian who tells you he has always been 100% sure about the existence of God is probably lying.

Regarding your second question, I don't find atheism appalling because I get it. I have doubted the existence of God and when I doubt I am not being irrational, so I know rational people can disagree with me.

The Reason I cannot embrace atheism is because I know God. I know that is entirely subjective and unprovable, but to a person of faith it is very difficult to ignore. I have seen him and felt him in my life, I have trusted him through situations in which I saw no way through and found myself coming through them time and time again. I know the word confirmation bias is flying through your head right now, but faith is sometimes something that can't be helped, it is in some ways not something we hold to but holds to us. Every time i doubt, I return. Everytime I question i still hold on. It just doesn't quit.

Regarding your points

*I don't know if i consider homosexual sex is God's intention or not. Contrary to common perception, there are many christians and christian groups out there that do not believe homosexuality is sinful. I do not believe sexual orientation is sinful as there is no control over it. Lastly Homsosexuals are people made in the image of God, deserving of compassion, dignity, love, respect and all things pertaining to human beings.I do not know if homosexuality is a sin, but I know homophobia is.

*barking up the wrong tree here, I and many other Christians are theistic Evolutionists. Evolution presents no threat to the christian faith, only overly literal interpretations of the liturgical/poetic piece that is the first chapter of genesis. Even long before the Theory of Evolution many prominent Christians were questioning a literal reading of the work.

Can you clarify what you mean by request based intercessory prayer?

*Some passages of Scripture are intended to be interpreted literally, others such as prophesy and poetry not so much. I am certainly for textual criticism and the reading of scripture in proper context.

*I am against elective abortion for the purposes of birth control. But my views are hardly simplistic. If you have any specific questions I'm open to answering them.

Thank you for your honesty and attempt to avoid bigotry. If more theists and atheists were willing to do this I honestly believe the world would be a better place.

bezjones · 3 months

Sorry that this is gonna be short because I'm on my way out the door right now, but reply to me if you're interested and I'll get back to you.

Just looking at your bullet points, none of those are really "Christian" viewpoints, they're all cultural. I take it you're in America? As a Christian who lives in Europe I can assure you that this is not the majority view of Christians.

I don't consider atheism appalling, I consider all of mankind to be depraved and I thank God for his grace.

Nattfrosten · 3 months

I do not have any problems with atheists, since it's a fully respectable view of the world in my eyes, and I think that God will eventually save everyone, regardless of faith.

The reason I'm not atheist, is because I do not have an atheistic worldview, since I'm a theist.

I see the labels of atheists and theists as a way to show what they believe (or don't), and even though I can see why some chose atheism (MANY here in Sweden) I do believe in a God.

ncastleJC · 3 months

I think one of the first things I would say is that as much as people make it out to be a belief, there's a difference between a belief and a worldview. Atheism is technically the logical disposition on the stance on God. Ravi Zacharias once interacted with an atheist at Lenin Military Academy by responding to his question by "If there is no God, and you're an atheist, do you care to explain what it is you're denying?" Truth is that we have to respect atheists due to the fact that they don't really have a worldview, they merely point out the flaws of religions. It is a naturalistic/relativistic/pragmatic/hedonistic/materialistic worldview that a Christian does not condone. Much like the atheist, Christians point at the flaw of the atheist claiming certain aspects of a naturalistic worldview all the while still calling themselves "atheist". Unfortunately, the current American Christian demographic doesn't understand this. Once Christians can understand it's naturalism that we condemn, not atheism, we may be able to make progress as to distinguish why we believe what we believe and how to convey these ideals to others.

misterbeaver · 3 months

Is Secular Humanism the same thing as Atheism?

reddell · 3 months

It does not take much foresight to see that as their numbers increase, the profundity of their posts descends into near-hate speech or worse.

The IQ of any unorganized group is inversely proportionate to its size. That's just the way groups work.

_ropes · 3 months

Why would it be appalling? I love reading and listening to atheist/agnostic worldviews, even if they're usually considered offensive (I like controversy, it's fun). It gives me a broader view of opinions held by those who don't agree with me and it helps me to have more respect in discussions and debates.

As for the list of 5 points you made about things you don't allow,

Homosexuality isn't a sin and contraception is a good thing
I welcome evolution as fact
Request-based prayer doesn't work
Literalism leads to fallacy, inconsistency and contradictions
Abortion can be justified (sometimes. if it's just "i dun wanna baby i cba" then it's just plain wrong)

These attributes are associated with fundamentalists. It saddens me that WBC are very stereotypical Christians while being the most famous Christian extremists.

guy-enigmatico · 3 months

I don't find Atheism appalling, although I do have problems with anti-theism that this probably isn't the best place to discuss. I don't find it appalling because I know I don't have all the answers & I'm sure that no Christian has all the answers; We're all just doing our best & getting appalled at another person's beliefs when they're not harming anyone isn't justifiable.

Why can't I embrace Atheism? 1- I find the idea that it's all ultimately meaningless to be horrifying. That we are merely an accident, that all our suffering and struggles go unwitnesses and unmourned terrifies me. 2- I can't get my head around order being emergent from chaos.

I know both these arguments say more about me than God or science but like I said I don't have all the answers.

I'm trying to keep this breif so if you'd like me to expand on any of this please let me know

we_are_sex_bobomb · 3 months

I do not find atheism appalling, but I do find secular humanism profoundly disappointing. The reason being that I do not equate understanding with experiencing. I do not desire to limit all meaning in life to that which is objectively verifiable, reproducible, intellectually comprehensible, and verbally transmittable. To neuter the human experience in such a way fills me with horror, and I find that the path of secular humanism demands too much of me insofar as it demands I explain or rationalize my delight in the unfathomable to the satisfaction of peer reviewed journalism. I do not like being told that a thing is only what it is commonly and most conservatively agreed to be made of, and nothing more. I find this existentially hollow. I would rather experience a phenomenon that no one would ever believe, than to explain a mystery such that no one could argue. I guess that boils down to personal preference but there it is..

alexteate · 3 months

1st The word "Christian" no longer means Christ-like because of our epic failure to embrace the same things Jesus did. 2nd "Christians" forget that Jesus was crucified because he was friends with Prostitutes, Tax Collectors (thieves), Murders etc.. so why is Christianity all of a sudden too good for Homosexuals? (personally I don't believe that people should be labeled by their sexual orientation but that is a different argument all together)

BUT to your points ... I am not threatened or appalled by your beliefs neither should you be appalled by my beliefs.

notjawn · 3 months

I don't find it appalling, but lets get real here and say the majority of atheism is nothing but an attack or attempt of mockery at religion and faith. I mean I know the same argument applies to fundamentalists and zealots when it comes to attacking non-believers but at least they're fringe and not representative of the entire faith.

Whereas the most vocal atheists like Dawkins and Hitchens actively support mockery and attacking people of faith. I like the Unitarian Church, but really atheism as a whole needs some new PR.

klenow · 3 months

I don't find atheism "appalling" because at its core it does not aim to hurt anyone.

I only object to actions or attitudes that cause suffering outside of the person that engages in those actions or holds those attitudes. Atheism, in and of itself, does not make an atheist cause suffering in others. Therefore, I can't find it appalling.

However, as I understand your post, I do find your definition of anti-theism offensive:

At it's simplest and most broad, it is accurate to say that I am for the long-term goal of our world shedding the vestiges of the major monotheisms as quickly as possible, so long as it does not require a significant contribution to the aggregate human suffering.

I guess as some sort of hypothetical it's ok, but how do you reconcile the two components?

It seems to me that removing "the vestiges of the major monotheisms" would remove people's right to follow their own belief systems. The right to maintain your own belief system is a fundamental right (IMO). That is, it should not be impinged upon except in the case that its exercise impinges on the fundamental rights of someone else.

And removing fundamental rights is pretty much the definition of imposing suffering.

Or do you think that the adherence to religion is merely the result of ignorance? (I don't mean that to be inflammatory, it's just that it's a common misconception that is, ironically, based on ignorance)

wombatmacncheese · 3 months

If you find Atheism personally appalling, can you take a few moments to describe why?

We are all still sinful humans, i don't find Atheists particularly appalling, i find arrogance and close-minded stubbornness appalling, which can be found in many people on all sides of the fence. I am sometimes moreso appalled by Christians that misrepresent the gospel message. I have nothing at all against people that are seeking the truth with all their hearts that haven't found the gospel yet, or have been feeding a false impression of God and the gospel because of the way they were mistreated by the church at some point. I take it as my own personal failing that the gospel is being reflected poorly, and that i haven't done more to share what i have received.

If you don't find it personally appalling, can you take a few moments to explain why not and why you cannot picture yourself embracing Atheism?

I would consider Atheism incomplete, as a belief system. I am no expert, but there is no account of the creation of the universe, our purpose for being here, and the fulfilled prophesies and staggering unity in the gospel, despite it being written by many different authors, in many different time periods and places in the world. None of the answers Atheists can give are as good as the measure of assurance in the Holy Bible.

Id_Tap_Dat · 3 months

As bezjones said, your bulletpoints are not really Christian points of view, they're really just republican points of view. Fundies are not real Christians. I mean that not to invoke the no true scotsman, but only to say that when they say that they are the real Christians and everyone else is simply failing to live up to their standards, they are not the ones who get to define Christianity, so do not take them at their word.

Anyway, to address your question, I find atheism appalling, if you can call it that, because it is a rejection of everything. If it were really just so simple as rejecting the idea of a big bearded man in the sky, that would be one thing, but it's so much more than that. To me, the rejection of the idea that there even is a God represents a fundamental shift of thinking to self-centeredness that is totally unacceptable in the Christian mindset. Let me try to illustrate:

As an atheist, what does one have to live for? That is to say, what greater cause can one devote themselves to? For a Christian, I can devote myself to God. For an atheist, what is left? The nation? Well, you're not going to become a Libyan nationalist as an American citizen, are you? You're going to support your own nation. That's self serving. The tribe? Again, it's not someone else's tribe, so it's still self-serving on a very material and economic level. The immediate community? Same problem. The family? Even worse. The only possible out would be that you could devote yourself to curing some disease, or discovering some new technology or something, but even that excludes some group of people from the ones Christians are supposed to love. For atheists, it all comes back to self-serving causes, and that's of course assuming that you choose to devote yourself to something higher or greater than you at all, which there is suddenly no incentive for in the atheist mindset. We are left with the individual being the center of their own world. That is something I cannot abide. That is almost the definition of hell, to my ears: life as an atheist. But what's really troubling is that there are enough people out there who think, "so what? Why would I not want to be the most important thing in my life?" That, my friend, is appalling, from a Christian perspective.

By contrast, as a Christian devoting myself to God, I am no longer allowed to give a crap about national, tribal family, gender, etc. identities, because as part of my love for God, and of God's love for humanity, "there is no longer gentile or Jew, servant or free, woman or man, etc." It is my sacred duty to set all people's needs before my own because "whoever wishes to be first must make themselves last, whoever wishes to be served must serve the rest," etc. It compels me to be a selfless person, often times against my will. There are people I can't stand. I will still cater to them. There are people who I know will fail and test my patience. I will still serve them unconditionally. I am not allowed to give up on people precisely because God does not give up on me. In an atheistic mindset, none of this really applies.

To me, another problem of atheism is that it sets the standard of what people should be, by and large, to what they naturally are when they're too rich and comfortable to really be bad. One popular slogan, if you can call it that, is "_____ was good without God." Well that's bullshit. Even if you could be good without God, you could be GREAT with God. Christianity, on the other hand, sets wealth and comfort as a moot point, and teaches everyone that they can and must strive for perfection and sainthood, not just being normal, or doing more good than bad.

Now, I will be the first to agree with you that Christianity does not universally work to achieve the goal of dethroning oneself from the center of one's world, and putting God there instead. There are swindlers who will corrupt anything to their own ends, but I believe that they are relatively rare, and that the knuckle-dragging mouth breathers who tend to follow them can be enlightened through actual study of the Bible, contemplation, and prayer.

TurretOpera · 3 months

If you don't find it personally appalling, can you take a few moments to explain why not and why you cannot picture yourself embracing Atheism?

I find it to be ontologically disordered. Living as an atheist is like having a tool box which you insist on employing in the wrong way-wrenches to pound in nails, pliers to remove screws, etc. You could do a lot worse in life, but I think you can do better too.

Paraptorkeet · 3 months

I take issue with people who wear there viewpoints and beliefs like a cod piece, parading it around and strutting down the street like Mic Jagger, daring passersby to take issue, questioning and harassing anyone with different viewpoints, so that when one of those people gets fed up and resorts to insults they turn around and say "See this is what I'm talking about! Those people! That's whats wrong with them right there! Did you hear what he said to me?" and so on. These people can be Atheists, Christians, republicans, democrats, vegetarians, and any other label people put on themselves. I call these people assholes! Even if I agree with what they're saying I still tell them to stuff it, because I don't want assholes to speak for me.

AndAnAlbatross · 3 months

[deleted]

studenthous · 3 months

As a Christian there's nothing wrong with you being an atheist. Jesus taught that we do our best to get you to consider Christianity, but that it's of your own volition as to whether or not you choose to believe. That said, I'd hope you'd reconsider Jesus. He loves you and died for your sons, but if you don't then that's okay too. God loves you, I love you, but mostly the Lord wants your happiness.

One_Catholic · 3 months

I was an atheist for twenty something years, so:

If you find Atheism personally appalling, can you take a few moments to describe why?

It's not appalling to me. In fact, it's perfectly reasonable and most likely accurate. However, it's not enough to sustain me.

If you don't find it personally appalling, can you take a few moments to explain why not and why you cannot picture yourself embracing Atheism?

I think the hardest thing to embrace when it comes to atheism is the entire "meh" aspect of it. There's very little community or support, and much of it is presented in negative terms: we're against this, we're angry about that, we don't like...etc. I find very little love and a whole lot of anger.

However...being one myself at one time I understand where a lot of this is coming from. And, being on the other side of the line now (as a Catholic) I can tell you that anger/division/lack of community is nothing special to atheists! There's plenty of it to go around.

At the end of the day, though, I feel torn. I see atheist and Christians as just being people trying to figure out what the heck it means to live this life and doing their best to live it. It sound trite, I know.

ebz · 3 months

The reason I would find atheism disagreeable is because I have found LIFE in Jesus. Don't think I'm talking about finding life in religion or logical arguments - I have found true life in Jesus. And it just keeps getting better! I know Jesus to be Truth from a deeper place than just logic (yes, I know this is cliche, but it really is true). I have this overwhelming deep desire that has only been filled by knowing Jesus. I really do love him - he's real and wants to be with us.

PS I was an atheist for quite a while - so I know both sides. A relationship with Jesus has been the best thing that's ever happened to me.

AndAnAlbatross · 3 months

First, I do not view points 1-4 as necessarily Christian, but rather, simply part of a particular culture and a result of flawed theology held by (mainly) American evangelicals. The abortion issue gets a tad bit murkier, but we'll save that for another time.

On atheism:

In my mind, the most concerning cultural/philosophical development is the rise of nihilism and moral relativism among young atheists.

Sam Harris and most atheists truly acknowledge absolute truth but simply reject the notion that a god is the source of such truth. I can live with this viewpoint.

However, we - as a society - run into significant problems when we no longer recognize things such as right and wrong or good and evil. When we no longer recognize truth, then we no longer recognize human rights, statements of individual value, etc.

Some atheists read such comments as mine and say "Hey! You're suggesting that atheists are incapable of being moral". No. Some atheists are more moral than some Christians.

My argument, rather, is that there is such a thing as objective truth (as Sam Harris and most philosophers recognize) and that it is dangerous to suggest and live otherwise. Interestingly enough, you'll find that most self-described nihilists and moral relativists actually do believe in objective truth and practice it on a daily basis in their everyday lives.

Beyond this recognition of an objective truth, I take it one step further and argue that the source of this universal, objective truth is an immaterial, disembodied, timeless, and all-knowledgeable being; and whether one recognizes God's existence or not, we derive our universal standard of decent behavior from this being.

Scenro · 3 months

If you find Atheism personally appalling, can you take a few moments to describe why?

I don't find atheism appalling. I find the reactions of anger between just people in general the worst. Christians shouldn’t forcibly try to convert people from their beliefs to Christianity just as atheist shouldn’t forcibly try and convert Christians, Muslim, Buddhist and the like to atheism. Much of the argument is 'how can you believe in something that’s imaginary?’ Really how can we believe in anything in theory? Even science all starts out as a hypothesis. Some Hypothesis and theory just can't be explained or take a lot longer to be explained. How can we believe in anything before photographs? Sure there’s written word and textbook, but history is iffy anytime before methods of proof have been made. All in all Christians should never, ever think ill will on a person; claim them as going to hell, and more so. Because by doing that you:

Push someone further, never even wanting to dabble in seeking God.
You’re not doing God’s will by loving others and all, no matter how terrible some people can be to you. (and people can be effing terrible! We just have to hold in the pain and bear it through, because causing revenge and pain will only beget more pain.)

If you don't find it personally appalling, can you take a few moments to explain why not and why you cannot picture yourself embracing Atheism?

I don’t find it appalling because I feel there is a reason for everything in every way. I am saddened and disappointed that some don’t want a thing to do with any religious belief, but that’s my feeling preference. I would not judge or find it revolting because at one point I fell off the boat from religion. I won’t go back to agnotism/atheism though. One, when I first climbed back up the boat, my life was such hell at the time, I felt my exposure to religion again was a “why the hell not? I have nothing to lose anymore, not even my dignity or pride.” I was what I felt like the living dead for a few years. I even had a few cases where I desired not to be alive…. At all. There was no point. Going back into it was so unimaginably painful though. My moral conflict skewed, I became angry, I wanted to run from it all again, but something kept me going and I stuck with it, got passed my moral conflict and moved on. At first I was freaking out thinking those around me were brain washed, and to this day I still do in some cases ( because the church I went to was… odd… pushed prayer, monetary giving, and took pride in aspects like none other), but I’ve moved on to other churches and have seen differences. You can’t blame a church for your atheism, because every church is different. Some are terrible, mean, almost like brainless political figures with no compassion or grace, others are textbook and teach the bible and explain the bible as well as acknowledge humans as being sinners, but it’s not the end of the world. After the conversion something in me changed and life became brighter, more patterned and predictable and definitely more ironic. When everything clicks into place as it feels it should it, tweaks me the heck out even still, but I know there's something going on there that's greater than me and the world. And I love it.

Now back to why I won’t go back to atheism. Two, would be that I don’t think it would give me the joy I have now. Sure I could run amok and do what I did back then and generally not give an eff, but just the daily reminder of feeling loved by God ( a greater being than the world) makes me want to continue to be a better cleaner person. Not in the eyes of the world. The world doesn’t mean a thing to me, but the eyes of something greater does. I don’t like the way the world judges’ people. Why would you seek that narrowness that can create jealousy, terror, anger, pride, sometimes joy and wonder but it’s usually not a key factor, and so on. The world won’t remember us after we die anyway. It would be like a colony of ants where only the queens would matter and we will just turn to dust. I don’t like that feeling of being dust. So I don’t want to attach myself to it.

(( Sorry if I got off on a tangent at some point, its late, im listening to super chill music, and about to fall asleep on the computer. Any questions to clear things up, by all means ask. Hopefully ill either be able to respond less tired, or do my best to clear some things I said up ))

Edit: This is a thought I had and its a bit off from everything but, Ive realized I don't like the word religion. The way I view Christianity is not a religion, but as a philosophy to live by and to hold dear to you and love.This is where God comes in, as God is love. Because many people have died and have been slaughtered for believing in this. Love has done some wonderful things to us, and can still cause pain when there is a loss of love. Out in the Conga, you would be slaughtered today for Christianity and in cold blood. Yes I believe God exists. I believe that faith, hope, and love is our foundations to live by, and that Jesus Christ, the son of God, died for our sins and our most unsavory of actions. But I don't like how bitter the word religion is when referring to Christianity, and that I feel this word 'religion' limits it potential and power of impact. Its debatable with some Christian's and I will agree on the flaws it may have, but we tend to have flaws in all beliefs.

cardinalwolsey · 3 months

I'm sorry I don't see how viewing suffering through a naturalist lense is in any way comforting? Christianity explains it and offers a solution. Atheism uses Christian morals and lenses, pretends the world envisioned by both didn't originate from religion, and then throws away the religion. That will work fine, but eventually Hitlers and Stalins who are unchecked by a 'universal moral code' for lack of better world will make up their own and that will be a bad day.

Moral condemnation of contraceptives is not biblical and though the catholic church offers a view on it most chrstians use their own. Homexuality is a biblical sin and if you think Catholics or anyone else 'hates fags' you are simply making it up to enjoy the contraversy you can create.
The catholic church accepts evolution
I take comfort in knowing that the 300 people in my congregation care for each other. How is this a bad thing?
Even if they use literalism what damage would that do? Last time I checked knowledge of evolution isn't useful to 99% of the human population. (I'm aware that you can argue this but it is beside the point).
You aren't going to convince any person with respect for human life that abortion isn't killing a human. If atheist show this little amount of respect it's only a matter of time before humans start building a master race sequencing fetus dna and aborting undesirables. Oh wait. It's not genocide if we kill them early enough.

jimjonj · 3 months

I'm no longer a Christian, but I recently posted this which I think is somewhat relevant.

From my experience many Christian leaders much of the time outright lie when facing something they do not agree with. I've been in a pew where the pastor spoke of how evil atheists are etc. Demonstrably false with just a look at religion demographics of many countries. Especially the Scandinavian as far as western countries go.

I've also had to sit there and listen to how evil women and doctors are for abortions, and how those women tend to be suicidal. How they will never recover from what they did. Again, willfully, demonstrably false.

The way differing views like these are handled in the Christian community is completely dishonest, ignorance enforcing, scare tactics. It's understandable how that translates to the above comment.

Albeit this is going to be anecdotal, I feel like I can give some insight spending my life surround by the Christian view and possibly something to reflect on for Christians here.

It is human nature to fear the unknown and misunderstood. My family especially is completely unable to objectively look at a view. It is essentially blaspheming to take religion out of the equation when having a discussion. This immovable barrier between mutual understanding is almost forbidden in general with the Christian view.

For my mother, it is offensive to her to believe someone can be happy without Christianity. For my old pastor, to discuss any opposing view is to be treated as the work of the devil. His focus was keeping people on "the path", and he liked to use scare tactics to accomplish this.

I believe there are 2 major problems when it comes to removing religious bigotry. Many of religions fundamental ideas present the biggest problem. When the fundamental idea of your religion is all people are born evil and must be saved in order to be whole/cure from their sickness, it is almost impossible to accept those who do not share your view are actually happy/complete as they say.

Second, much of the bigotry is mandated by their religion's deity. In order to live in that religion, you must be a bigot. This problem is just as hard to overcome as the first.

Again, I feel it's human nature to fear the unknown and then hate what you fear. What I mentioned earlier makes it inherently difficult to understand a different view so it will always be an unknown.

Sidenote as I tend to do... I will admit much of this does not reflect on the Christians here. I do have to say I agree with the majority of the Christians that many of the liberal Christians are not "true Christians." It almost seems dishonest to me. For example, those who claim homosexuality isn't a sin according to the bible. I don't understand how that can be an idea in a Christian setting. It almost shows even Christians are having trouble keeping the morals of modern society from creeping into their ancient ideals.

Mansyn · 3 months

I think you'll find that there are a lot more atheists that frequent this board than Christians, you can draw your own conclusions as to why.

JoePants · 3 months

Excuse me for jumping in at the middle here, and at the same time more-or-less echoing what's otherwise stated. I felt the need because I felt myself for many years an atheist (really a humanist, but no need to put too fine a point on this).

Long story short: I am not appalled at all.

I do feel a bit saddened, only because by your own definition you're not able to enjoy the personal relationship with God I'm able to enjoy -- and it is a relationship which brings a great deal of joy to my life, in all regards. (A great deal, all regards.)

That is, however, not the same as being appalled.

hagerty9009 · 3 months

I don't find atheism personally appalling simply because it isn't, in and of itself, harmful. However, the more I look at the world, the underlying beauty of it, and most importantly the underlying order of it all, it points to a Creator.

AndAnAlbatross · 3 months

[deleted]

you'll need to login or register to do that

create a new account

login