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[–]Instantiation 211 points212 points ago

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I prefer The Message translation: "Haters gon' hate."

[–]ricbah[S] 31 points32 points ago

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Hahaha, thanks for the laugh.

[–]VirginiaBlend 4 points5 points ago

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BAHAHAHA dude perfect.

[–]P1h3r1e3d13 2 points3 points ago

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[–]runamuckalot 5 points6 points ago

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HAHA love it!

[–]shobogenzo 1 point2 points ago

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Hahaha thanks guys :D Both great.

[–]tree_D 1 point2 points ago

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And they will. Its unfortunate that they don't understand that the hating "US" part is all but encouragement for our faith.

[–]flakface 0 points1 point ago

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pretty much the modern day version ;)

[–]pcsurfer -1 points0 points ago

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Eugene peterson does it again

[–]LetUsGoThenYouAndI 28 points29 points ago

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To be clear, Jesus is not saying you will be hated because of how some people misuse his name. But because if you are truely following him - that will go against the grain of the rich, the powerful, the governments that promote war; and they will want to stop you.

[–]MadCervantes 1 point2 points ago

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Yep!

[–]sebastianpaul1787 3 points4 points ago

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Ron Paul anyone ?

[–]One_Letter_Shor 37 points38 points ago

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Awesome verse and fantastic reminder. Thank you.

[–]Pendit76 2 points3 points ago

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Very inspiriational.

[–]sambrosia 28 points29 points ago

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Thank you, thank you, thank you for the reminder. I needed that today.

[–]DevilYouKnow 28 points29 points ago

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A very stressful day - a big birthday party at our house coupled with my grandfather having a stroke. I'm just so tired of negativity. Life is short. We have to be peaceful, faithful, and full of thanks.

[–]enterence 21 points22 points ago

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Hey there. Fellow Christian here. The hate is not because of Christ but rather because of the hypocrisy we Christians pull... fighting tooth and nail to prevent equal rights, in general trying best to FORCE our morality on others, something which Jesus never asked us to.

Lastly we can't whine about people voicing their opinions and call that hate.. hate is what Christians did to the non believers, the Indians, the native south Americans., I can go on .. considering the amount of injustice done in the name of our Lord we should be working hard at correcting those mistakes... not quoting some cool bible verse.

[–]DingDongSeven 4 points5 points ago

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Have an upvote. I could say that if all Christians were like you, I'd still be one, but that's irrelevant: If all Christians were like you, I genuinely believe the world would be a better place. Still, I won't call you a "good Christian."

I'll just call you a good person. Hope that's enough. :)

[–]enterence 1 point2 points ago

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Thanks for you kind words. Will be very hard to find anyone that lives up to that - Good christian. will be very very hard, especially with all the contradictions in the bible, anyways lets not go there.... Im far from a good person, but thanks a lot anyways.

I have not gone all out and said I do not believe in the Church's version of Christianity and their version or idea of god outright because of my mom. She is super religious but not blindly crazy. I do challenge her ideas, throw in some new ideas and point of hypocrisy, but to straight out deny her god, the one she though me about and holds dear to her will kinda be hard so I dont do it. I must add Im 30+ with my own family and not some college kid. Mom is old so and heavily conditioned (Asian) so I need to take it slow :).

Still working on my god issues. Need to sort it out so I can pass on some good ideas to my kids.

[–]TheIcelander 2 points3 points ago

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You cite historical examples, but it's still happening. As I posted before, every mention of someone being Christian is an implicit acknowledgement of their superiority. Now, this might be related to the culture we live in, where Christians are given so much privilege. That's why politicians compete to see who's the most god-loving, why murderers will convert, why priests - who have little to no psychological training - are considered good people to consult about psychological issues.

So when you say you're a Christian, you're saying "I'm better than you. And more than that I'm humble about it. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it while you roast in hell."

[–]digitabulist 4 points5 points ago

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I sometimes feel the atheists on here are as bad as they say the Christians are. Some atheists show as much intolerance and hate toward Christians as they claim Christians show to homosexuals and other groups.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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To be fair, a lot of the atheists you speak of don't hate Christians; they hate (or dislike) Christianity.

Kind of like that saying "love the sinner, hate the sin".

[–]LtDanHasLegs 0 points1 point ago

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And homosexuals and "other groups" are generally only singled out by Christians because of what the bible says, and not because of how their actions affect other people.

Most often (in my experience) atheists are generally mean for an actual reason.

[–]davorzdralo 0 points1 point ago

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Were you ever discriminated against by an atheist?

[–]rvlution 3 points4 points ago

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This is encouraging. I'm glad I found this subreddit. I think this will help spur my own faith along.

[–]ricbah[S] 1 point2 points ago

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Yeah I was glad when I happened upon it as well. Glad you found this helpful.

[–]wonkifier 8 points9 points ago

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It's a funny thing, I remember at the first church I really attended, Mark 13:13 was pretty much used in reverse.

If we weren't being hated, we weren't trying hard enough.

[–]ricbah[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Wow.

[–]wonkifier 4 points5 points ago

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My parents took me out of that church/school when I started 7th grade... I was utterly terrified because people were going to force me to do drugs and stab me or have sex with me.

That place did serious numbers on me =-/

[–]Ishmael999 2 points3 points ago

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I'm not saying you're in any way the same as them or that your church is, but does it bother you that that is likely how the WBC justify their actions?

[–]MadCervantes 3 points4 points ago

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That is, but it's also how some atheists justify their actions. "They just hate us because we are telling them THE TRUTH and LOGIC". Yeah. Nah. Its more because you are acting like a dick.

[–]Ishmael999 2 points3 points ago

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That's just the point. I think that in a real search for truth, tactics like that are not just pointless, they're counterproductive. They keep you in your old position, which would work if you're right, but nobody knows that they're right for certain.

[–]okayyeah 0 points1 point ago

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I read it as we should go about our ways, but if people hate us, we should take it in stride, and not let it beat us down. This idealism contrasts with those who just go out and actively seek people who will hate them because of their actions.

[–]MadCervantes 0 points1 point ago

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I agree. I think okayyeah made a good point. You have to take that idea in moderation and not twist it to one's own ends. People will twist anything to justify themselves, and we should not do that.

[–]agnijd 1 point2 points ago

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Thank you. That's very encouraging.

[–]killerkram 1 point2 points ago

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Nice verse, I hold that one close when I come to the internet

Its a dangerous place! Take this!

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]ricbah[S] 0 points1 point ago

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mah man.

[–]lookatmyrangsmyrangs 21 points22 points ago*

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I am an Atheists and I still think Jesus was a cool dude. His teachings were great. I just don't think he was a real person. Just a really great character in an interesting fictional book. EDIT: When I say I don't think he was a real person, I mean not in the way the bible depicts him. I realize that there was a man named Jesus who lived but I don't blieve he was divine or performed any of the miracles the bible claims.

[–]jimmywong 3 points4 points ago

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I'm massively paraphrasing this from CS Lewis (Mere Christianity) but it's rather illogical to point to Jesus as simply a great moral teacher or "good dude" without recognizing his status as Son of God. If someone ran around today claiming he was able to absolve you of all your sins, you would most likely classify him as rather crazy and unbalanced. He either is the Son of God and can do all these things and is the greatest teacher of our time or he isn't. He didn't leave any middle ground to have himself be interpreted as anything else. He didn't intend to.

[–]lookatmyrangsmyrangs 8 points9 points ago

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Seriously? Why are you attacking my beliefs? I have faith that he was a cool dude in a fictional book but may or may have not existed in reality.

[–]cephas_rock 3 points4 points ago

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The above person said he doesn't even think Jesus was real, so the "Lord/liar/lunatic" argument doesn't really work.

[–]jvlp 1 point2 points ago

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Liar, Lunatic, Lord, or Legend. Legend being that Jesus never did claim to be divine OR Jesus was not real.

[–]i_have_a_rash 0 points1 point ago

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Jesus did say "I and the father are one." (John 10:30). So, I don't know where this idea that "Jesus never claimed to be divine" came from, but it always irritates me. To a Jew - claiming that he and YHWH were one was the highest claim of divinity in existence.

[–]jvlp 0 points1 point ago

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The idea is that perhaps there was a historical Jesus. But maybe he didn't really perform miracles or claim to be divine. Maybe the writers of the Bible made some embellishments.

For example, Matthew, Mark, and Luke don't claim that Jesus is God. Only John has a high Christology.

[–]rabidmonkey1 -1 points0 points ago

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[–]lookatmyrangsmyrangs 1 point2 points ago

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TL;DR What part of the page am I supposed to be looking at?

[–]rabidmonkey1 -1 points0 points ago

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Well, I don't know what you, as a person are looking for, but the point of me posting the link was to show you that the historical consensus is that Jesus really did exist (even if historians don't agree on his divinity).

[–]lookatmyrangsmyrangs 0 points1 point ago

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Ok, I can agree on that. A man named Jesus existed. But the Jesus the bible claims he was in my opinion did not exist.

[–]rabidmonkey1 -1 points0 points ago

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I'm not trying to convert you here, but what's your reason for thinking that?

[–]lookatmyrangsmyrangs 0 points1 point ago

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I should edit that a little. Evidence suggests he exists but I don't believe that the man the bible depicts existed because the bible is not a reliable source.

[–]elmstfreddie 0 points1 point ago

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I'm also an atheist, and I sort of disagree. Jesus was, in fact, a real person. However, that doesn't mean (at all) that the way he was portrayed in the Bible is true. The Bible is full of some good messages though, but sometimes it's just hard to get over all the hate and strange things it includes too.

[–]WickedRoot 15 points16 points ago

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i love you all.

[–]updn 7 points8 points ago

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you don't know me.

[–]WickedRoot 6 points7 points ago

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does that mean i can't love you? i think not.

[–]updn 2 points3 points ago

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Sure, if you want the word 'love' to be so meaningless as to be little more than handing out 'slushies' to occupants of passing vehicles on a hot day with a card that says "Jesus loves you" on it. But if we're using a meaning that I consider to be a little deeper, then no.

[–]elisedee 8 points9 points ago

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I also love you.

[–]WickedRoot 3 points4 points ago

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I love you.

[–]updn 5 points6 points ago

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Ye crowd around your neighbour, and have fine words for it. But I say unto you: your neighbour-love is your bad love of yourselves.

Ye flee unto your neighbour from yourselves, and would fain make a virtue thereof: but I fathom your "unselfishness." -- Zarathustra, Part 1, Ch. 16.

[–]MadCervantes -1 points0 points ago

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Don't quote your bible man. That's not a substitute for a philosophical argument, hahahaha

But seriously, we love you. At least we try. Or want to try, even when its hard.

[–]Step1Mark 2 points3 points ago

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Responses like this really grind my gears. It reminds me of the character in Pixar's Up. It is such a weak level of love. So often among Christians they express that well known passive-aggressive hate with a fake smile and then round it all off with a ... "oh bless their heart".

[–]WickedRoot 1 point2 points ago

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i love you.

[–]JugglingReferee 16 points17 points ago

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Praise the Lord Jesus Christ.

[–]ricbah[S] 5 points6 points ago

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Indeed!

[–]isbo 4 points5 points ago

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Amen

[–]lakingscrzy 4 points5 points ago

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I love you guys. You are my flickering candle in the darkness.

[–]old_merc 13 points14 points ago

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I think the atheist temperament on reddit is more a combination of disappointment and frustration, not hate.

The Mark quote is a perfect example of why we are frustrated. This quote allows you to automatically rebuff any criticism in any form without any thought. In fact it allows a believer to think that being hated is a good thing. As if being hated is an indicator that you're doing something right. We can't have a reasoned conversation with you because you abandoned reason for faith. Just think about people born into any cult and how bad you feel for them. You're indoctrinated and we can't help you and it makes us feel useless. That's my perspective as an atheist.

[–]ricbah[S] 2 points3 points ago

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I think the atheist temperament on reddit is more a combination of disappointment and frustration, not hate.

There are many posts that I would easily classify as hate. However, you are right for the most part. But, I am not only referring to reddit, but life situations in general.

This quote allows you to automatically rebuff any criticism in any form without any thought. In fact it allows a believer to think that being hated is a good thing.

Negative, ghostrider. You are taking this verse and flipping it around in order to make it say this. Spinning this verse to mean this is a dangerous play that obviously can authorize a "Christian" to offend anyone "for the sake of the gospel." This is a mistake that many people make (there is a comment somewhere in this post where the commentator was brought up in a Church like this). He's not saying it is a good thing to be hated. He is simply saying that we will be hated.

You're indoctrinated and we can't help you and it makes us feel useless.

I'm not sure if you are referring to me specifically or Christians in general. Many people are brought up in "Christian" homes where the faith is a social aspect of their lives and nobody in the family even knows who Jesus is or what the Bible says. I, too, feel the need to help these people. They did no personal investigation in order to come to their conclusion and therefore, their faith lacks substance.

In any case, the purpose of my post was to simply point out that one should not feel disheartened in his/her faith just because they feel overwhelmed by counteracting viewpoints. Instead, one should examine their faith for themselves and decide whether it is reasonable, trustworthy, etc.

[–]old_merc 9 points10 points ago

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How did I flip that quote around? You act like I did some clever word play but I simply pointed out a logical conclusion a person could make based off this quote.

[–]BrewCrew12 7 points8 points ago

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I am currently reading through Matthew, and I agree with your statement of how Jesus is impeccable. Every story, everything He says in response to the pharisees questions is just awesome (for lack of a better word). Thanks for the post!

[–]finitude 2 points3 points ago

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I'm going through Mark right now. Jesus really was just so impressive. Such a good example.

[–]gunny16 0 points1 point ago

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Thanks for the verse. I also wanted to add this if you don't mind :)

Romans 12:2.

[–]Kind_Of_A_Dick 1 point2 points ago

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What does Mark 13:12 say? Mark 13:14? It's an interesting passage but it shouldn't be taken out of context.

[–]im_back 2 points3 points ago

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13:12 to 13:14 probably won't satisfy you, so here's a larger selection. I think 13:5 to 13:23 will give a complete scope of the idea; it's that at the end, certain things will happen (such as people claiming to be Christ, the gospel proclaimed to all nations, and that following the abomination , Christ will return):

Mark chapter 13

[–]Lurker4years 1 point2 points ago

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Not to help the atheists, but "the one who stands firm to the end will be saved" seems like a self-authenticating statement.

[–]krissypants4000 0 points1 point ago

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That is awesome. Just what I needed to hear this evening; thanks!

[–]chewis 7 points8 points ago

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Wonderful. Jesus knew so well the way the world would react.

[–]persiyan 4 points5 points ago

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There were many religions and cults around that time. They knew there would be naysayer and unbelievers. For instance today there are many cults and religious that are being made up in Africa, India, South America among others where men or women gather up followings, whether small or large, and it's not uncommon, and it wasn't uncommon back then. Among such diversity and old traditions it's not hard to imagine people would reject you.

[–]davorzdralo 0 points1 point ago

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If there is anything religions share, it's the hatred.

[–]ElBrad 4 points5 points ago

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The day that Christians actually follow the word of their god and stop trying to interfere with the lives of others, is the day they will see less hatred.

The day they behave as Christ would have, is the day people will stop calling them hypocrites.

[–]Pfeffersack -1 points0 points ago

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You realize Jesus was very much interfering with the lives of others? Mocking the authority, healing people on Sabbath, driving merchants out of the temple, the list goes on and on...

The day society realizes Christianity is not (and cannot remain) private the day society will have a better understanding of Christianity.

[–]Mendiosus 2 points3 points ago

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Wait, so you're claiming that Christianity is fundamentally incompatible with a free society? (That it must be "in-your-face" and that society needs to understand that to understand Christianity)

[–]TheIcelander 1 point2 points ago

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If Christians did those things, it would be ignored.

Instead they're claiming ultimate authority and trying to get their will passed as law, creating laws dictating what can and cannot be done on certain days of the week, and putting merchants in the temples.

That's what we're talking about.

[–]the_mattador 9 points10 points ago

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I am curious... Does everyone hate you? Everyone? If not, then how can this verse be true?

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]the_mattador 0 points1 point ago

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So, the OP is incorrect in thinking that this verse applies to reddit?

[–]lookatmyrangsmyrangs -1 points0 points ago

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Damn your logic! It is not welcome here! lol

[–]franksvalli 0 points1 point ago

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That would only be true if we were all fideists.

[–]jvlp 0 points1 point ago

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It is interesting that the Word of God is full or hyperbole.

[–]A_Prattling_Gimp 7 points8 points ago*

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I am an atheist and I don't hate theists at all, and not all atheists are anti-theists or gnostic-atheists.

"Hate the theism, not the theist".

edit - correction in bold.

[–]MadCervantes 1 point2 points ago

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Thank you for saying this.

[–]midnightninja069 1 point2 points ago

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Appreciate the verse, Ricbah. You have no idea how encouraging that is.

Keep the faith, my friend.

[–]ndeffer 1 point2 points ago

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Thank you so much for this. That verse is always so encouraging, especially in times of doubt/oppression.

[–]we_need_ice 1 point2 points ago

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Dude. You rock.

[–]txrangers2011 2 points3 points ago*

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Very good verse. I love Reddit, but a lot of people are subscribed to this subreddit just to pounce on every post/comment we make. It really is disheartening, because the front page preaches peace and tolerance on social issues. Yet, every time something that has to do with Christianity is posted, it is shot down.

[–]ricbah[S] 0 points1 point ago

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Indeed, good sir. Sad times.

[–]chosen-vessel 1 point2 points ago

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Their hatred only makes me appreciate the love of my brothers and sisters like you. God bless

[–]sawser 3 points4 points ago

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Most of us don't disdain Christians (I'm married to one). Just being forced to act like one ;) - Or being forced to watch people twist the message for hateful political reasons.

[–]InconsideratePrick 3 points4 points ago

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Everyone will hate you because of me

Assuming Christians follow Jesus' second greatest commandment of loving your neighbour as yourself then where do you suppose the hate comes from? Christians shouldn't feel hated if they're just following the teachings of Jesus, as far as I can tell most people still think Jesus was an ok guy.

[–]ricbah[S] 3 points4 points ago

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Of course no one is going to receive hate for following the golden rule. However, let's remember this is not the only one of Jesus' teachings.

In my opinion, there is no logic behind this hatred but it is very real. For instance, simply deciding not to participate in an activity that is contrary to the nature of Jesus can bring disdain from the participators. Hatred perhaps breeding from a sense that the person not participating must think he is "so much better than us." When in reality, that is not the case at all.

[–]wonkifier 4 points5 points ago

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there is no logic behind this hatred

There often is, actually.

simply deciding not to participate in an activity that is contrary to the nature of Jesus can bring disdain from the participators

Standard social mechanisms at work here maybe... not taking part in something everyone else in your group is doing sets you apart from the group.

Hatred perhaps breeding from a sense that the person not participating must think he is "so much better than us."

That could be part of it sometimes, but don't assume that is it on its own though. Pay attention to how you exit the activity, and recall that your words may not come out as you intend them, and may not be received as you intend them.

Very often, a reaction comes not from "simply not participating", but how it is done.

[–]rileyrileyriley 1 point2 points ago

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It sounds like you are saying to not participate in the event but not actually stating your reason. What is wrong with saying you do not want to do the event because you believe it is wrong, or not in accordance with the teachings? That is not a way I am going to live me life. If people find the truth rude, then so be it. They will continue to think they know the truth but hey, "Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

[–]wonkifier 0 points1 point ago

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It sounds like you are saying to not participate in the event but not actually stating your reason.

Not entirely, but it's not going to end on just one explanation... it's just not productive to keep repeating the same thing and have it end up turning into a sermon. (even though that's not the intent)

What is wrong with saying you do not want to do the event because you believe it is wrong, or not in accordance with the teachings?

Nothing inherently. But when the other guys start getting confrontation about it, it's is extremely hard to not get confrontational in return, and essentially pass judgement on them. Or lead them to a place where they ask things like "Oh, so you think I'm a bad person?", etc...

"Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

Sure, but there's also the bit about showing love to others, which would include trying not to lead them into what you know will be a personal confrontation. And there's the bit about letting Him shine, etc...

[–]TheIcelander 1 point2 points ago

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Or lead them to a place where they ask things like "Oh, so you think I'm a bad person?", etc...

I see the same response to vegetarians. "Oh, so you think I'm a murderer for eating this steak? WELL I LIKE MURDER IT TASTES GOOD!"

[–]ricbah[S] 3 points4 points ago

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I agree. When I mentioned the no logic behind this hatred, I was referring to the type where someone is disliked for simply naming themselves as a Christian. My mistake.

Very often, a reaction comes not from "simply not participating", but how it is done.

I agree. It can be made worse or better based on the method the person uses to abstain from participation. However, I believe that in most cases, abstaining from an activity for the sake of Christ will be viewed negatively. Not always, but for the most part.

[–]wonkifier 3 points4 points ago

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I agree. When I mentioned the no logic behind this hatred, I was referring to the type where someone is disliked for simply naming themselves as a Christian. My mistake.

It could have been my mistake as well. But even there, there is so much surrounding it, you can't just say there's no logic in it.

If a person' experience with folks who have claimed Christianity, and you claim it... it's not unreasonable for them to think you claim some kind of link to the other people. You are well versed in your personal beliefs and actions, they are not.

Is it illogical for an abused dog to cringe when it sees people? It may not know you're a nice one, it just sees your kinda like the other ones that caused it pain.

Similarly, it also depends on how it comes out. Even in my most "Lion's den" of moments, it wasn't my Christianity that got me in hot water. Why didn't I want to go sneak into the Playboy stash? Supposedly it was because I was chicken. It didn't then wear my Christianity as a shield, I just stuck to "I just don't want to". I don't need to try to make a public stand for Christ in all its defense at that time.

And there's about half a bazillion other complications that might factor in. Human society is not a simple thing.

More often than not, if you fail to see any logic in someone's response, if is at least partly a result of your failure to understand them, a lack of your empathy or compassion, your failure to be able to put yourself in their shoes, to actually love them as yourself. And I don't mean that as an indictment against you personally. We all have our limits as humans.

I believe that in most cases, abstaining from an activity for the sake of Christ will be viewed negatively. Not always, but for the most part.

That may be your experience, but I suspect there are other factors involved that you're not noticing, or it's simple selection bias most of the time. (not that it doesn't happen, just not as often as you might think.)

[–]MadCervantes 1 point2 points ago

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Ummm.... you seem to be under the delusion that as long as you love people, they will love you. That's not the way the real world works buddy. That's what makes life so tough.

[–]InconsideratePrick 1 point2 points ago

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as long as you love people, they will love you.

You seem to be misconstruing my words. I suggested that by loving yourself and others they would have no reason to hate you.

But thank you for being so condescending.

[–]aphemix 2 points3 points ago

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sincere love recognizes honestly, implicates evil, and holds accountable. Many people want nothing to do with it.

[–]mmck -2 points-1 points ago

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most people still think Jesus was an ok guy

He was nailed to a cross after being beaten mercilessly, and his own people spit in his face, insulted and mocked him.

He would be treated the same today.

[–]InconsideratePrick 6 points7 points ago

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That was a pretty long time ago, nowadays we put Jesuses in mental institutions if they're causing trouble. We also have a Jesus in Queensland, Australia, who is still teaching his followers without persecution.

[–]dev_bacon 1 point2 points ago

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Thank you, that was really encouraging.

[–]BlaiseRascal 4 points5 points ago

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There is so little historicity about the life of Jesus that it's impossible to know if he was an "impeccable" characterization of mankind. And he probably didn't say that quote verbatim.

Yes, I have disdain for willful ignorance. I think that's justified, however, when people tell me they KNOW Jesus, a 2,000 year-old dead Jewish guy, can hear their thoughts and grants their wishes. You can call me a meanie, but that's like saying, "I want to believe in unicorns, I just don't want anyone to think I'm weird or stupid."

[–]Ishmael999 7 points8 points ago

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Matthew 15:26: He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." (Referring to a Samaritan woman)

Matthew 21:19: Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

Mark 5:13: He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.

These are off the top of my head and not exhaustive. Definitely impeccable character.

Thanks for telling me why I'm an atheist.

[–][deleted] ago*

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[deleted]

[–]toastthemost 1 point2 points ago

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...

[–]persiyan 1 point2 points ago

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But he drowned 2000 pigs... and nowhere in the Bible does it say they have souls or to go heaven, that's just cruel, and drowning just ins't a great way to go. Oh, but there were demons in them, that make sense.

[–]remybob78 1 point2 points ago

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These were the days before PETA...

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]persiyan 2 points3 points ago

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Ok, but I mean we are talking demons, and suicidal pigs, plus who the hell had a herd of 2k pigs back then. Why did the demons go into the pigs lol why not just go. Instead of getting rid of the demons why did he let the demons get into the pigs...

[–]ragica 0 points1 point ago

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Uh, you realize you're posting on a site that largely worships the fried slaughter pig strips sometimes known as bacon?

[–]emkat 0 points1 point ago

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He was using the predominant Jewish thinking of that time to test the woman's faith.

[–]Skooj 2 points3 points ago

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Well said, OP. I should remember this more often. Thank you!

[–]ricbah[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Thanks!

[–]ReconZeppelin 0 points1 point ago

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Thanks.

[–]fritzthehippie 2 points3 points ago

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Very inspirational. Thanks bud.

[–]ricbah[S] 1 point2 points ago

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Thanks!

[–]abw1987 2 points3 points ago

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Sadly I'm not sure reddit's hate is solely pointed towards those who "talk the talk but don't walk the walk", but towards all Christians in general.

For instance, I saw this comment today: http://i.imgur.com/sGVEq.jpg (Usually I'm unsubscribed from r/atheism, but I visited reddit from my phone and was not logged in.)

None of the people in this comic did anything "wrong" to contradict their sin. It seems like the person who submitted the comic just finds all religious people to be stupid. :(

[–]TheIcelander 2 points3 points ago

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Many atheists find belief distasteful. The person who made that comic is coming from a country where belief is private. It's like visiting someone who lives near a paper mill: They may not notice the smell, but you certainly do. Or visiting the home of someone who smokes a lot of cheap cigars.

Also, there's an implicit value judgement. Simply by existing as a non-believer we're condemned by the Christian god, if not Christians themselves, to eternal torment. Because we're "bad people."

Now, you can say "Oh, but we're all sinners." But since you've made the right choice you get out of the punishment you believe we're all due. It's similar to the story of the prodigal son. You're the kiss-ass who's going to heaven, and we're the misfit who's going to hell.

Sugar coat it all you want, but that's what a lot of atheists see when you bug us about how you're so happy you're "saved."

[–]abw1987 0 points1 point ago

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Now, you can say "Oh, but we're all sinners." But since you've made the right choice you get out of the punishment you believe we're all due.

I think that mischaracterizes it a bit. My being a Christian doesn't make me any less of a sinner than an atheist. It certainly doesn't make me a better person. I don't look down on atheists or believers in other religions. Perhaps that misconception is one source of the feeling of distaste.

Are you from Iceland, btw? A few years ago I visited Reykjavik for a few days. It's still one of my favorite trips.

[–]TheIcelander 1 point2 points ago

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I know you don't look down on me, and I know you don't think you're a better person for it, but the rest of society does. Atheists are less trusted than convicted rapists in the US.

If I were ever on trial for anything I'd be an idiot for not trying to appear as a pious Christian, who believed in Jesus and had a wonderful change of heart, rather than the kinky, intellectual atheist punk that I am.

And that misconception isn't the source of the distaste. I feel the same way about people who talk about sports or fashion or celebrities constantly. I just have an aversion to those things and would rather not talk about them. But I don't have Packers fans bugging me at home on Saturday.

And, no, I'm not from Iceland. It's a reference to Brave New World.

[–]abw1987 -1 points0 points ago

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Atheists are less trusted than convicted rapists in the US.

I really hope you're exaggerated. And I really think it depends on where you live, how smart the person is, etc. There are plenty of religious people who are prejudiced against others, and there are plenty of religious people who consider everyone as equals. Similarly, there are plenty of atheists who consider all religious people to be intolerant idiots, and plenty of atheists who don't fault others for their beliefs.

[–]TheIcelander 1 point2 points ago

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This was posted to /r/atheism a while back. Granted, the error bars are pretty big but the trend is there.

There are plenty of religious people who are prejudiced against others, and there are plenty of religious people who consider everyone as equals.

I'm sure there are. The problem is nobody can know until you've had some pretty intimate discussions with them. And until you do that you're part of a generalized demographic. And in most of our society calling yourself Christian makes you automatically trustworthy than calling yourself an atheist, even if the former is a convicted rapist and the latter is a philanthropist.

[–]SirenPassingBy 0 points1 point ago

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Now, you can say "Oh, but we're all sinners." But since you've made the right choice you get out of the punishment you believe we're all due.

Not all Christians believe in this model of sin, btw.

[–]ricbah[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Sadly, this is the world we live in. Hence, why I made this post... so that people will be encouraged.

[–]abw1987 1 point2 points ago

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Thank you for that!

[–]ehrensw 5 points6 points ago

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I find it overly convenient whenever a christian says, yes, but they aren't real christians. Westboro is every bit real christians.

Having read the bible, I can see that they are in fact holding quite true to the teachings of the book. They are assholes, and I don't find them agreeable at all, but they are definitely christians. More Paul than Jesus, but definitely christians.

Just saying they aren't real christians does not make anything better. Address the fact that they are in many ways truer to the bible and that they are disliked by most christians. Then you will find real progress has been made.

[–]Karma_Houdini 3 points4 points ago

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They are Christians, yes. But the real question is are they Christ-like?

[–]ehrensw 3 points4 points ago

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No, but neither am I

[–]ricbah[S] 11 points12 points ago

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I did not say that they were not Christians, just that they deny Christ through their actions. Many of their practices undermine the authority of Christ and His teachings.

[–]ehrensw 9 points10 points ago

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Which is exactly what they would say of you. I see all sorts of groups accusing one another of those exact things.

What I'm saying is that the flaws they show are part of the flaws of Christianity. Extreme applications thereof, but christianity none the less. They see Christlike very differently than I (and i suspect you) see it. But they have the same source material.

So the question becomes, how can that source material lead them to the conclusions they found? No cheap answers. Because I believe they gave it an honest effort and arrived at hate, when all I see in Jesus is love.

[–]ricbah[S] 1 point2 points ago

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I would say that it comes from twisting the words of the Scriptures to mean something that they do not. I am not sure where the desire to do this stems from or how some people draw radically different conclusions from the same text. One example of this has been brought up in the comments to this post already. A couple people saw this verse to mean that you should try to be hated. This comes from reversing the order of this verse. I'm not sure why people would switch it around so it can mean whatever they want it to but there you have it.

[–]ehrensw 5 points6 points ago

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I see this as a common behavior with all religious texts that says something about the people, but also about the texts.

[–]MadCervantes 2 points3 points ago

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You will find this to be true of any belief system not merely those based upon sacred texts. If you will look, there are many atheists out there who complain about other atheists not following the correct practices or beliefs.

This is simply because as long as there are 3 people in a room there will be 4 opinions. People will divide themselves into groups and then find things to quibble about. Then they break off, and just as soon as they have established some kind of dogma, they do the same thing all over again. Just check philosophical existentialism. They're hardly agreement between Sarte and Camus and they were best buddies and the founders of the movement. No one can agree on anything for long without nitpicking.

[–]emkat 2 points3 points ago

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I will not say if I think they are Christians or not Christians, but they have a lot of extra-biblical beliefs.

They claim the notion of Godly hatred where God righteously hates everyone. It's really weird stuff.

[–]ehrensw 1 point2 points ago

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It is weird

[–]lemonpjb 6 points7 points ago

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Yeah they totally follow the teachings of the Bible. Except for, you know, the whole showing love and compassion to people. But yeah other than that, spot on!

[–]crassy 3 points4 points ago

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They believe they are showing love and compassion. They do not say that they hate anyone, they are just taking biblical verses and applying them...like other religious people do. If you actually listen to them talk they always make the point of saying that they believe their actions are borne out of love for humans and that it is their job to educate the masses.

[–]gluskap -1 points0 points ago

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They are not truer to the Bible. The Bible does not say "God Hates Homosexuals." It simply doesn't.

[–]HandcuffCharlie 6 points7 points ago

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Just says we should kill them.

[–]Lonewolf_drak 1 point2 points ago

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If you're trying to reference Leviticus you've already lost that argument.

[–]ehrensw 1 point2 points ago

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Look, I couldn't agree with you more. God is love. Jesus is love. I'm on board.

But, well intentioned (I must assume) people have read the same source material I was provided and came to very different conclusions. They have a page of citations, and I can see where a well intentioned person could walk away from that set of bible citations and believe God hates just about everyone and everything.

http://godhatesfags.com/bible/God-hates.html is the link, though I am reluctant to drive any traffic to them.

[–]EntinludeX 2 points3 points ago

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I encourage you to read the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

And note how they conflict with one another.

Examine the character of Christ and ask yourself if He is truly someone you would not want to identify yourself with.

The incarnate genocidal bloodthirsty desert god who impregnated a teenager in the middle of the desert in order to incarnated on earth to fake his own death to serve as a loophole to a capital punishment rule he made? No....

Mark 13:13 -"Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

And yet atheists are the least trusted demographic on earth. Funny story, bro.

[–]alfereti 3 points4 points ago*

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Thank you for this verse! I was impressed by this point a brother told me. We are living similar times to the early Church where people will mock or even persecute you for being Christian but we don't need any divine powers or strength to endure through but just the humanity of Jesus. This can espeacially be seen in the type of the Ark, covered in gold but essentially made of acacia wood.

[–]EarBucket 23 points24 points ago

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We are living similar times to the early Church where people will mock or even persecute you for being Christian

Unless you've had friends and family thrown to the lions recently, this isn't true.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points ago

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http://www.persecution.com/ -- a large portion of the world lacks the level of safety and security we benefit from in modern Western society.

[–]EarBucket 14 points15 points ago

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Certainly. The vast majority of the population of /r/Christianity, however, is highly unlikely to experience persecution, unless you count people being mean to them on Reddit.

[–]nrj 11 points12 points ago

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I'm sorry, but are you actually trying to say that whatever you have to deal with is somehow similar to being tortured to death for your beliefs?

[–]ricbah[S] 6 points7 points ago

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He's using hyperbole. Perhaps this is not true in America, but in other places of the world people are harmed for simply believing in Jesus, or any other entity for that matter.

[–]zerostar5 0 points1 point ago

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you cant hardly run for office in this country with out having to pretend your a christian yet your persecuted? are you being fed to lions? nope you just cant push your cult lifestyle on others in public places...and people on the internet make fun of you. you have it so bad don't you?.... i hope they don't start burning you at the steak or ripping your flesh off while your still alive you know the way christians treated us for hundreds of years....fuck off you pussy cultist.

[–]iwashere33 0 points1 point ago

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but couldn't anyone else have said that exact same thing? - for example if satan said the same thing would he still be the bad guy? in fact, isn't the entire concept of good and bad just a different viewpoint. i mean, look at the story of how in the harry potter series Snape was thought to be many things (including the bad guy) but after learning a few more things about him we come to find that he was fighting for what he believed in.

i'm just saying that believing in something wihout knowing everything is what you call blind faith, i call it ignorance.

[–]Meekois 2 points3 points ago

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Disdain for Christianity? Atheism rate is at an all time high around here. The fact of the matter is, most redditors don't want to talk about religion at all. Any attempts to do so are usually shot down.

[–]Balestar 10 points11 points ago

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Most redditors don't want to talk about religion at all.

I'm not sure if it's that, a huge proportion of the people in /r/atheism have had terrible experiences with Church/religious followers, particularly the sort that are completely unwilling to have any form of conversation on the matter.

It's hard to talk to someone who (by the very nature of Faith) is required to view things in a specific, dictated manner.

I'm fascinated by religion and the role it plays in peoples lives (both positive and negative) and love conversing with people, but as I said above, it can be very, very difficult.

[–]Meekois 0 points1 point ago

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Well I'm considering the the "outsiders" to the religious topic reddits. People who are primarly on tech, videos, pics, or advice animals. I'd say a good chunk of them just don't want to hear about religion to begin with.

[–]Balestar 0 points1 point ago

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In that case, I agree with you. You can expand your comment to include people in general though, regardless of whether it be in person or on the internet.

[–]Elphante 0 points1 point ago

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yeah, I know what you mean about it being difficult to talk to some people about what they believe. Then again, some people are just shy or afraid. They know that they believe but they haven't answered all the deeper theological questions and evidence questions for themselves, how can they answer someone else asking them about it?

[–]Balestar 1 point2 points ago

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Maybe I'm in the minority, but the response "I honestly don't know/haven't thought about it" is an exciting answer, at the very least you've opened the pathway for that person to come to a better understanding of who they are as a person.

[–]Elphante 0 points1 point ago

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i agree, it is pretty exciting for a person to open a "pathway for that person to come to a better understanding of who they are as a person."

[–]ralexis 0 points1 point ago

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oh the poor Christians are feeling oppressed...

[–]deadweather 1 point2 points ago

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not really, but a lot of places in the world they are.

[–]DickMoveAdam 0 points1 point ago

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And Reddit, apparently.

[–]MadCervantes 0 points1 point ago

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I could go to r/atheist and link to half a dozen redditors complaining about being oprressed right now. So whine fest, both sides?

[–]LtDanHasLegs 0 points1 point ago

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In the first part of your post you said, "Most of this hate is pointed towards Christians... (that are hypocrites)"

But the verse you posted says nothing of getting caught in crossfire because someone else is a hypocrite. It says people will hate you because of Jesus.

That doesn't seem the same to me.

[–]arkmtech 0 points1 point ago

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The atheist who hates the Christian is as righteous than the Christian who hates the atheist: Regardless of religion or lack thereof, hate is never right, nor virtuous, nor justifiable.

[–]ricbah[S] 5 points6 points ago

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I'm not sure what you are referring to. I made no comment in my post justifying hate for atheists.

[–]arkmtech 1 point2 points ago

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My apologies, I wasn't meaning to accuse you (or anyone) of anything or undermine your words, but rather to stand in agreement with you.

[–]MadCervantes 1 point2 points ago

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Thank you!

[–]klapaucius 1 point2 points ago

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I would say that few among us on Reddit, Christian or atheist, hate others here. IRL it's a different story, of course, but that's not the issue at hand.

[–]impending_dave 1 point2 points ago

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"Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked." - Psalm 97:10 (KJV)

"Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners." - 1 Corinthians 15:33

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful." - Psalm 1:1

There are lots of more verses that imply that anyone who isn't a Christian is an ungodly, evil person. If you are to hate what the Lord hates, how are you in a position to choose what not to hate, or how is hate not virtuous in these instances?

I didn't bring up the verses on homosexuality because I'm worried I'll just get the canned responses that the OT can be thrown out the window again.

[–]arkmtech 0 points1 point ago

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If you are to hate what the Lord hates, how are you in a position to choose what not to hate

Not everyone will agree, and I don't insist that they do, but I sincerely believe that God does not hate, He does not punish, and He is not wrathful. Sure enough, the Old Testament describes God as possessing such characteristics, but I do not believe they're part of God's repertoire today.

I didn't bring up the verses on homosexuality

No need, I've heard them all. :-) All I can say is that I'm a homosexual in a monogamous relationship, and God finds a way of showing His love for us one way or another each and every day.

[–]SirenPassingBy 0 points1 point ago

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There are lots of more verses that imply that anyone who isn't a Christian is an ungodly, evil person.

Most of those verses refer to a very different society. Rarely do you see a reference to non-believers without also automatically adding some more understood human trait to them. Most saints of the time had kinda lousy past histories, too (Paul was a straight up murderer). Which leads me to believe the concept of a secular humanist atheist didn't exist at the time. Furthermore, our society has advanced, and produces better people by default, so it seems to us people are good, but that may not necessarily be true. Generally, true good is not accessible to most people off the bat without help of society or religion or something.

There is actually a whole passage in the Bible that talks about Jews and Gentiles, and it mentions that Jews are not excused by merely having the law, but by following it. There are similar verses about Christians who are the brother and mother if they do God's will. Furthermore, he then also mentions that Gentiles, who do not have the law, can still act in accordance with the law, without knowing them, and their conscience will accuse them or excuse them.

But be aware of what is defined as wicked. The Psalms of David mention them a lot, but look what they do. People who oppose, mock, make fun of Christians (Jews in David's case), people who tell Christians "your God doesn't exist" and laugh at them, people who attack them, people who commit some of the things that are considered significant sins, such as extensive lying, adultery/sexual immorality, idolatry, etc., would probably fall under the description of "wicked". But it really has nothing to do with unbelief at that point.

[–]cyrusjumpjet 0 points1 point ago

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Thank you :)

[–]Tjgalloway -1 points0 points ago

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aw man, that must suck being a minority on reddit... to bad the real world doesn't give a single fuck about that and we have corrupt religious crazies running for office denying same sex marriages... who are you to tell who someone can love? or heck, even in day to day life most of these american redditors that have these atheistic viewpoints get religion jammed down their throats... but like i said it must suck being the minority on reddit and not a 'Democratic society' that governs your day to day activities of the real world... but then again your christian and you wouldn't know what the 'real world' was even if it hit you with a mutated gene...

[–]NotLikeYou -2 points-1 points ago

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Thanks for this... While most of my high school friends have similar beliefs as me, I am constantly surrounded by my old college friends, who are almost entirely atheists. Most of them tend to keep their beliefs/non-beliefs to themselves but my current roommate, who just got a shiny new Dawkins book, loves to regurgitate everything he has "learned." Usually it doesn't bother me because I am well equipped to deal with it, however, it does wear down on me every once in a while. Having not seen this quote in quite a while, I feel much better.

[–]ricbah[S] 1 point2 points ago

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Glad to help! Keep the faith, friend. You are not alone.

[–]thedemonkilla 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

To be fair, Christians have brought it upon themselves with their hypocrisy and not living out Christ's teachings in their day to day lives. And on top of that, insisting that others be like them. I can see the atheist viewpoint.

[–]DirtySketel 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I don't think the atheist community of Reddit hates Christians. In fact, we like having you around. We do make fun, but I think it's more the beliefs themselves which we ridicule. We make a lot of jokes, but hate really isn't the word.