Is anyone here a closet anarchist out of necessity?

PauliEffect · 4 months

You aren't being cowardly your being strategic - good for you. We need people in all professions, organizations and governments. Your activism can begin simply by having rational conversations with your co-workers. Everytime you challenge their assumptions and help them think outside of the left-right political spectrum (whether they know it or not) you are achieving great success for all of us.

I can appreciate people questioning your choice of career however there is certainly going to be nuclear r&d whether you're involved or not. Maybe that's exactly where we need you. I occasionally lament my black blocing, squatting, getting arrested days - then I remember they were the greatest years of my life. In my opinion your making a huge sacrifice for all of us. Being an anarchist can be mighty lonely without the solidarity and mutual aid of your brothers and sisters. I don't think your in the closet, I think your undercover.

gnkbot · 4 months

Comp sci student here, feel your pain to some extent. All my anarchist friends are liberal arts majors, and all my tech friends are apathetic. It's really a shame. Anarchy needs more technical minds IMO; it's as much of an engineering problem as anything else. We need people to design free networks, sustainable agricultural systems, etc. I tried explaining to one of my anarchist friends how the small-scale manufacturing movement could totally uproot current systems of power, but she just threw up her hands and said it was too technical for her.

I would think carefully about what you really want. Do you really want to support this system, or are you just taking the path of least resistance? No one said anarchy was easy. One of the most insidious parts of our society is that everyone can pretend they are blameless, and "just trying to get along". You'll get resistance from your peers, your family, everyone. If you're like most engineers I know, you like using your mind, and engineering is a vent for that. You don't have to use it to support the system, though. Are there any other fields of science/engineering that you're interested in?

MikeBoda · 4 months

You might be interested in the biography of J Robert Oppenheimer. He was perhaps the most important nuclear physicist in US history in terms of contributing to both theory and actual development/engineering. He lead the Manhattan project.

Oppenheimer was a leftist and openly supported and raised funds for our side in the Spanish Civil War. His associations with socialists coupled with Cold War paranoia eventually lead to him being blacklisted and interrogated by the US government.

Ginjeet · 4 months

I was. Came out. Lost some friends and found some new. Had some arguments in my family. Pretty much the same thing with atheism. I'm happy with my decision.

afireatseaparks · 4 months

I don't talk about anarchism much because I'm still pretty new to it, and I don't want to further the stereotype of anarchism being a poorly thought out ideology for the ignorant and angst-ridden. While I've made up my mind that I'm socialist, anti-authoritarian, and anti-capitalism, I'm still exploring different subsets of anarchism and answers to the difficult questions raised by the idea of a society without government. The few (liberal) friends I've attempted the conversation with have been somewhat dismissive and condescending, and I didn't have an arsenal of truth bombs at the ready, so I'm holding off until I can present a more educated argument.

Also, it's comforting to read this thread and see that other anarchists have jobs they find problematic in relation to their ideals. Makes me feel less alone in struggling with that personal conflict.

kropotkinbakunin · 4 months

You are not alone, I have had to hide the fact that I'm an anarchist just so I could get work. I have worked in a bank counting money, after that I worked for the same bank answering phones, and now I'm working for an auction house (that sells fur to rich Chinese businessmen).

All are places that would never hirer an anarchist, but it didn't stop me from going to protests or taking part in the anarchist movement where I live. I have been arrested during protests, but have never stood trial. I know the police knows that I'm an anarchist (I have a police report on myself that I got from a lawyer).

The point being, don't be paranoid, just be fucking careful who knows.

DrKuha · 4 months

You don't have to use the word "anarchist" when you're debating someone.

Anarchists_Love_Cats · 4 months

I think most of us live a sort of double life when it comes to work. I work for a mainstream news organization (a big one) and most of my comrades don't see what I have to worry about, but somehow I don't think it would go over well if my superiors discovered I were an anti-authoritarian revolutionary syndicalist.

DogBotherer · 4 months

I chose anarchism over a very well-padded upper-middle-class career (as a lawyer). It was kind of dumb and kind of fun, but it is most certainly 100% irreversible... And I'm definitely excluded from lots of places that once would've been open to me to pervert and corrupt (or to be perverted and corrupted by...)

It's a choice, you make it and you live with it. For good or for ill. But I certainly don't begrudge people who can maintain radicalism in the face of a conspiracy of conservatism. I just doubt most people's ability to do so however much they might believe they can...

MagonistaRevolt · 4 months

I'm curious about other closet anarchists, but I'm also curious about what kind of work you strive to do with such credentials. What liberatory projects do you see yourself participating in with a skillset as a nuclear engineer?

I understand that you don't have to have a job congruous with your politics necessarily. I understand working at McDonald's (proletarian jobs that one does to survive), or working in academia (the privelege of having an academic pursuit and pursuing knowledge for its own sake). But I'm curious if you see any potential in what you do for communization/negation?

RosieLalala · 4 months

I understand. I work high-security events like the Olympics and certain high-stakes political gatherings - while simultaneously protesting them in my off hours. It's is a very fine line to walk. It started because I like infiltration (and have always been good at it) and then my employer kept me because I do a good job. I like the work and so I don't really want to have it go away any time soon. I also need to be able to cross international borders at the drop of a hat.

The way that I've figured it out is to show how I want the world to be. I help to run a community space because I think that they are an important demonstration of the potential of how it should be. I help to run a community food programme for the same reason. I host clothing swaps and craft nights and distribute zines because the knowledge should be shared. I do court/prison support (depending on where in the system folks happen to be). In all, I try to be the change that I want to see in the world.

I figure that there are two prongs - the part that demonstrates a better world is possible, and the other part that goes out and fights for it. While I support the fight, I prefer to demonstrate the potential. When I'm old I plan on becoming a raging granny and a part of the red hat society - that way I can fight for change. But for now, I'd like to introduce people to what we could all share - a future of communities and social responsibility.

MikeBoda · 4 months

I know anarchists that work on physics and chemistry projects at state funded universities and top national labs. I've personally worked on fabricating electronics--in the private sector-- for products used by the military and national labs.

You'd be surprised at what you can get away with. Look at what Chomsky was able to do while being more or less funded by the Pentagon for more than half a century. You often have more autonomy to express your politics when you are employed by the state than you do in the private sector. For profit corporations are much more anti-union and have no concern with tenure protections.

Remember that when you are teaching or doing publicly funded research, you might have some chance to work on some science or technology that could benefit your fellow workers without turning a profit for the ruling class. When you work for private industry, you literally can't exist unless you are enriching the shareholders at the expense of the working class.

datoo · 4 months

I'm not exactly in the closet out of necessity, but I've lost the desire to talk politics with most people and I've become disillusioned with the movement due to how I've been treated by many anarchists over the years. I think I'm much happier for it. In the end ideology doesn't matter, actions do, especially being a decent human.

pzanon · 4 months

why do you want to be a nuclear researcher? i'm not challenging that, i'm just curious.

i think what's important is don't let other people tell you what you want. that's i think the most important thing. think really simply about what you want changed in the world, and the best strategies to do that. of course living a happy, fulfilled life is important in the meantime, but that's the way i approach it. i was growing increasingly disgusted with myself as i let myself get swept up in a career path until i just let myself go. it's not even a matter of taking a path of least resistance, it's a matter of being a dreamer, and working toward your dreams. you've got 50 or so years left. make them fucking awesome.

although most everyone i know are aware i'm some sort of commie scum (since highschool, i s'pose, though i didn't really know what shit meant then), i definitely raised a few eyebrows in my family when i changed from a "very promising" (ie many digit) career path to an ill-defined life plan. i explained it to my family in terms of the philosophy of simple living, which is something pretty damn difficult to argue with. really, you can't argue with something that's so simple and voluntary, it must be right.

k9pyro · 4 months

I claim to be a "philosophic anarchist," professing a belief in an anarchist utopia, but outwardly not admitting much more. Despite the fact that it's a useless institution, I feel a real, personal need to get my 4-year college degree, as well as getting a job in the U.S. gov't. I don't think I've been secretive enough on the internet (lol, I'm not using a throwaway on reddit), but I'd like a job in the U.S. foreign service office as my job-while-fighting-the-state. I'm a stupid hypocrite in that regard, but I think I may abandon that for a commune. But for the sake of my potential future as Big Brother/Thought Police, I pretend I'm just a U.S.-Libertarian.

godofwar007 · 4 months

why live in fear? also, you give the government far too much credit. the government does not monitor everything you say on the internet nor does it monitor your every movement. that only happens in hollywood movies. from my experience, as long as you are a trustworthy, innovative researcher with no criminal record you will pass any "background check" for a government lab. if you are going into politics, that's another story.

ImaBlackBelt · 4 months

Just by being a vegan you are already contributing more than most in the movement do. As to not being involved in protest, that's what the bandannas are for. They aren't for looking cool, they are so you are unrecognizable in any pictures that may end up floating around of you. I myself have appeared in a couple of publications, but no one will ever know because I always wear my trusty face protection. As for getting possibly arrested, it's usually the boldest in the group that get taken down, and just staying away from the front lines is usually enough to not get arrested. I get pretty lary myself, but I've never been arrested at a protest. My police record and DOJ/FBI also does not indicate that I am involved in the movement at all.

BibleBeltAtheist · 4 months

You sound like you´re on top of your shit. I think you have more to worry with losing yourself than you do with getting outted. So, Don´t fucking lose yourself. Its easy to justify a lot of horrors when you have kids, a morgage, and school debt.

Don´t do any work that would compromise your personal beliefs. Its an easy road to go down.

briesa37 · 4 months

What are you contributing to the world through nuclear research?

PsyErryDay · 4 months

It's not nessacery to talk about anarchism until you are in a situation where it matters.

kataphract · 4 months

Anarchists will need you as they will other technically-minded people once they decide to secede.

PANCAKES_FORTHWITH · 4 months

I live in a conservative, suburban town in the United States. I can only sprinkle my ideas into conversation subtly.

HalfdanAsbjorn · 4 months

I work (or as it happens at the moment am trying to work) in Security. Seems like a bit of a daft roll for someone pro-anarchy but I'm really just doing it because there needs to be someone out there who's just trying to keep people safe and make sure they have a good night. Do I care if people take drugs? No. Do I care if it makes them violent or whatever? Yes. However it would be enough to ensure I never get a job again if they knew my answer to the first of those 2 questions. Security, as far as I'm concerned, shouldn't be about controlling what people are allowed to do, it should be making sure that they can do it without them or anyone else getting hurt. Because I'm not open about my political beliefs as much as (ideally) I'd like to be but I still act on them it means that I've become trusted by not only the employers but also by those I'm hired to protect. That's why I prefer to use jellybabies to stop a fight and then pretend it never happend (but with a warning) than forcibly remove both parties and ruin their night more than they were trying to.

closetotheoath · 4 months

You're being intelligent. I agree with what others have said: we need as many people as possilbe to be aware and supportive of Anarchism. You must have great skills to be offered a governmental position - we need that kind of commitment that you feel to your job/science. Once again, you're being very, very smart about this. Trying to weave in a little bit of anarchaic thought into conversations with peers/family - that is what most of us do, I imagine.

BibleBeltAtheist · 4 months

"I understand that this will probably be downvoted"

False

popnlochnessmonster · 4 months

I am. I'm getting an Economics, BS at a top business school. Unfortunately, I have to stay closeted, but I plan on doing some good things eventually.

tayssir · 4 months

I recommend the book Disciplined Minds. It's like a self-defense course for professionals who want to act on their values.

There's funny parts, like the chapter about people who successfully pose as professionals, pretending to have formal qualifications...

Particularly appropriate since it's written by an editor at Physics Today, who got fired over writing it, and a public campaign allowed him to win compensation and even symbolically get his job back. ;) (Symbolic because he resigned a few hours later.)

LadyOnAvon · 4 months

I have been (closeted, that is). Mostly just to maintain cordial relations with people I have to deal with regularly. My background's already flaky enough to scare away leery employers.

How high a clearance will you need? I used to work at a property management company (I know, I know...it was family owned! they were relatively un-evil) where we frequently had feds coming in to ask about former residents. The questions all seemed pretty mild. I was never even put in the position of worrying about hurting an applicant's chances--although it was awfully tempting when asked about a hall of fame bitchy tenant!

For a science/engineering job, I don't think some former roommate mentioning a philosophical anarchist affiliation would matter. You'd have to have been active in ALF or something. I used to do Food Not Bombs with a dude who did some sort of engineering work in an uber-high security building, and was always amazed they "let him in." He said it wasn't something that came up one way or another.

RiotGrrrl585 · 4 months

I don't have some supercool supersecret job or anything, but depending on the circumstance, I'll pull the "libertarian socialist" euphemism, or just talk about stuff and make it known that I don't think that people should be controlled by other people or that people or animals should be raised simply to serve a purpose for the benefit of another, and that if they want to share of themselves, that's cool, but they shouldn't be forced to. Stuff like that.

miketheexpert · 4 months

study up on martordom.

todhackett · 4 months

I dropped all of my conservative friends a long time ago. Not because they were conservative, but because they would engage in unethical acts towards others and deny wrongdoing, e.g. vandalism so there hasn't been any need for me to be in the closet. Actually, my professors don't mind either. Some of my liberal friends who are invested in party politics think I am naive. I really wish people understood how creative society could be without coercive institutions.

aletoledo · 4 months

Just tell them you're an anarcho-capitalist. Nobody is afraid of us. Voluntarism for the win!

thelastfolksinger · 4 months

Nice try, CIA

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