If depressive realists are often credited as being of above-average intelligence, is it smarter or dumber to trick oneself into a more positive/optimistic/happy-go-lucky state-of-mind?

reflectives · 3 months

You don't have to trick yourself. I was once in the same state and I broke through it. The more you learn about the world, the more you realize how ridiculous it is and that we could be doing so much better. My breakthrough came when I decided to use my understanding of the problems in the world to be a part of the solution.

I assessed where I was at and what resources I had to work with. I started volunteering some of my free time to worthy causes, meeting other great people. I opened up a community farm and I'm going into my third season. My goal is to be a sustainable model for agriculture. I'm getting more connected with leaders in town because they see that I'm thinking long-term.

My advice is to be a part of the solutions that you see, take time to enjoy the wonderful little things, and live your ideals. We have one life to explore the Earth, people, and ourselves. We also have the ability to help lead things in a better direction. Which direction do you want to go?

This is an excellent interview on meaninglessness and making meaning.

TedKord · 3 months

This is what is so disgusting and evil about the world.

That good, intelligent people are so horrified by it - and their inability to do anything about it - that they must censor their minds and shut down portions of their conscience.

What a terrible place.

twiggy_trippit · 3 months

I think you have a bad definition of optimism. Optimism is not about naively believing everything's going to be alright. Optimism is about holding the firm conviction that if we work hard to improve our condition (as individuals or as a community), we can succeed.

Frankly, our era comes with its own huge challenges, but I think we need to look at how far we have come. Ideas like democracy and human rights were marginal a few hundred years ago, while now it's the standard against which we look at everything. I'm thinking of other times and places where I could be living, and being a first-worlder in 2012 is really not the worst that I can think of.

I really wouldn't mind living in pre-colonial Tahiti though. ;)

T_Mucks · 3 months

I don't think it's that simple - a realistic worldview requires constant examination, which is both exhausting and revealing of the lack of rosy-colored truths.

However, that is not mutually exclusive with optimism: it's often possible to give a perceptive priority to either the more positive or negative aspects. You're more likely to see things in the light that you're looking for.

Think of it this way:

Optimist: The Glass is Half Full!
Pessimist: the glass is half empty...
Realist: The glass is at 50% capacity.

And, just to show how perception skews simple realities:

Scientist: The the silica-oxide cylinder contains 50% H20, 50% air by volume.
Conspiracy theorist: That glass or the water could be meant to kill you...?
Journalist: according to sources, the glass, placed on the table only moments earlier, was reported to contain either alcohol or water. Speculation has arisen that the Governor may have been under the influence at the time. Sources report the glass was not full.
Scientologist: the glass emitted a high concentration of theons.
Sociologist: let's observe how people interact with the glass and the water.
Baptist: Thank the lord for this holy water which we will use to baptize this sinner!
Atheist: Can we stop attaching baseless meaning to it and just drink the water?
nihilist: The glass is entirely empty - same as everything else.
Redditor: Hey guys! Check out this awesome illusion! Is it half full or half empty?

RiotingPacifist · 3 months

It seams like you are confusing cause and effect and given undue importance to intelligence (especially as IQ is often used in studies about intelligence)

veridicus · 3 months

Upvote for a great question.

I'm a strong believer in not deluding oneself. We live in this world and have to accept what we can and can't control. But perspective matters.

First, it helps me to think of each person and group separate from society at large. Society is often ignorant and slow to change. But there are very smart people doing great things. So while I agree that our societal problems really suck right now, I gain hope by following people and groups I admire. You're not the only one who sees what's wrong.

Second, there's your own world that's somewhat distinct from the entire world. Within your own sphere of influence there's much you can do. Spend some time focusing on those things and you'll gain satisfaction naturally. Stay educated, volunteer, do favors for friends, run for political office, etc.

LeiJun · 3 months

I cross-posted to /r/BipolarReddit just because of the specific nature of my question. To be fair, I'd like to look at this from both points of view.

Did anyone else smirk after reading this?

Sorry to be tangential, I apologize to not be truly contributing to this post. Let me give it a go.

I've found myself thinking that I can manipulate myself to do whatever i want, which to me is natural thing to learn because in this world is so vast and you can quickly feel how little control you have on anything other than yourself. But on the flip side its hard to know what you really don't know. I find that you must keep exploring, and take time to evaluate and re-evaluate. Find what ideas you believe in and work towards them step by step, little by little, seeing what works and what doesn't. I believe that control over yourself goes a long way you're willing to put in the effort to try. I'm not saying blindly look past the obstacles but if you can see the challenges you should be able to break them down into smaller ones that you can find solutions (hopefully long-term ones) that are worth your efforts and don't require you to 'trick' yourself.

Afaflix · 3 months

I guess the depression part stems from realizing what this world is coming to and that there is nothing to turn it around.
So, if you can tell yourself "Oh well then, fuck it, let's be happy" ... sure go ahead.

angrynirritable · 3 months

Yes, ignorance is bliss, and I don't know how to get there. FML

danxmason · 3 months

Slightly intelligent people figure out how to be depressed. Very intelligent people figure out how to be happy.

kagayaki · 3 months

Two cliches/sayings come to mind:

"Ignorance is bliss"

"Life is what you make of it"

While I'm not bipolar, I still kind of feel what you mean. Every time I go to work I go through the same type of thing, although it might not be quite as exaggerated. I was in a REAL good mood yesterday, until I went to work. I mean, it's almost as if clocking in worked as a switch that put me in a bad mood. About an hour into my shift I started trying to cheer myself up.. or at least tried to get myself out of the stupor I was in. Was I manipulating myself? Ignoring things I shouldn't have? I suppose I was doing both of those things, but the only thing we really have the power over is the way we interpret things. I could be pissed as hell that I'm 30 working at Walmart and have to work with a bunch of 20 year olds who seem to display little to no work ethic or responsibility for their job. It's not my responsibility to be responsible for them so while my first instinct may be to point out that the department hasn't been zoned at all in the last three hours, I know that trying to act like someone's boss even though I'm not won't be good for either one of us.

I have the feeling that beyond anything else, to some extent, humans are empathetic creatures. Our baser instincts may be that of greed and lust, but to put it another way -- if you unequivocally act like an ass to someone they will probably act like an ass to you too. I'm definitely not as trusting of people as I used to be, even though a part of me wants to connect with other people to an extent that I wish I was more open.

I've already pasted two quotes, why not 3?

“Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

Whether or not you believe in God (I don't), the sentiment is the same. America might be a political clusterfuck and its politicians are for sale to the highest bidder, but there's very little any one person can do to affect things. Your job might suck. You might need to lose 60lbs. Your social circle might be full of superficial assholes. You might not have a social circle (that's me). But all of those things are not equal in terms of how you can affect change, so it's my feeling that they shouldn't necessarily affect your outlook the same.

I guess this is my outlook and I'll stop rambling: it's important to be mindful of how things could or should be changed or improved, but if it's something you can't play a meaningful role in changing.. it's counterproductive to lose sleep over it. What you have the most power over is how you interpret things you experience in your life; it's your choice to view something as positive, negative, or something in between. 9 times out of 10, things are neither completely positive nor negative -- they're something in between. I don't consider myself unintelligent, but I'm also definitely also not a depressive realistic. This also does not mean I'm not cognizant of the fucked up things that go on around me.

thesorrow312 · 3 months

Ignorance is bliss. You need to be brave to get out of the cave.

mushinron · 3 months

Hi MTUhusky. I am a non-bipolar with a deep interest in the condition due to a close friend having it. It strikes me that you are trying to make decisions at a level of generalization that make it difficult to make judgements. Any discussion of human interactions is in essence decision making under uncertainty, and the information loss due to generalization makes this decision making under almost perfect uncertainty. I would recommend that you change to a sharper focus. I think that you will agree that humans are social animals that in part find meaning (e.g. derive some satisfaction) through interactions with others. While there are a small percentage of introverts for which this may not fully apply, assuming you are not an introvert, you are left with the question of how you build your community and interact with those outside your direct community to maximize your personal satisfaction. In this case, you are not trying to identify who is a wolf and who is a sheep, or choosing yourself which to be, but rather judging each interaction on its own, adapting your own behavior to match your expectations of your counterparts based on their history of behavior with you. In the case of the shady mechanic, it is natural for you to to be the defensive, unfriendly, negative outlook individual, and work to minimize interaction. In the case of your smart, entertaining neighbor, you can be the empathetic and optimistic friend. You may find that they have other friends that are of a similar nature, expanding your community of quality individuals. For strangers, you can take the look-and-see neutral approach. While this does not remove risk, you are making decisions based on actual interaction data. Wishing you the best from Tokyo.

erez27 · 3 months

Reality is depressing only if you dwell on it emotionally. I think it's dumber to choose one "personality" and stick with it. Set aside time for serious critical thinking, to explore new ideas and make important decisions. The rest of the time, focus on being happy, experience the present without worries (actively refuse to engage problems or deep thoughts unless you must), and recharge yourself emotionally and mentally. It's not a waste of time either; your brain is silently still thinking in the background, weeding out wrong ideas, creating new connections between established ideas, etc.

I don't mean to preach, and this approach may not work for you, but it works for me. Ever since I started practicing it, my life improved in all aspects. I'm happier, and that means I have more energy to explore the world and to think, and also the ideas from my happy mindset bring an interesting dimension to my thinking that I used to ignore.

I fondly call this approach Doublethink.

avd007 · 3 months

ignorance is bliss. but it doesn't mean being ignorant is good for anyone other than yourself.

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