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"The city of Aiken, S.C. has become ground zero in an ongoing debate over God’s place in government – and specifically the prayers that are offered by elected officials during public meetings of taxpayer-funded municipalities and other public bodies." (fitsnews.com)

submitted ago by Designthing

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[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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I wish people would think for one moment what their lives would be like if the shoe was on the other foot.

For instance, it really galls me that some men persecute gays... until their son turns out to be gay and suddenly they have a change of heart. Use your damned imagination!

I feel this is similar. If the town council were majority non-Christian and insisted on non-Christian prayers, I bet the fanatics in this story might have a rethink on the value of secularism.

[–]masklinn 6 points7 points ago

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it really galls me that some men persecute gays... until their son turns out to be gay and suddenly they have a change of heart. Use your damned imagination!

Their imagination tells them:

  1. It would never happen

  2. They would turn him straight with prayers, cold showers, more prayers and some torture

  3. They would disown him

[–]hazelk 1 point2 points ago

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It's disappointing that there seems to always be extremist arguments with this issue. I work for my local government and there are no prayers said at public meetings. But it is perfectly acceptable that the woman in accounts receivable has a calendar of daily prayers on display at her desk. When it's private, it's a private right. When it's public, it's apt for public speculation and debate.

[–]ima_coder 2 points3 points ago

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Don't we all know by now that the names of supposed supernatural deities have no part in the governance of US?

[–]Popular-Uprising- 0 points1 point ago

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Freedom of Religion != freedom from religion.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Praying at an event, even by members of government, is not the same thing as Congress passing a law. The Constitution is a collection of things that the federal (and by extension the States) cannot do to you. The elected officials are not forcing anyone to become religious or to pray with them.

The concept of separation of church and state is an important one, but it is not in the US constitution. The concept was outlined in a letter by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to Baptists from Danbury, Connecticut. In it, he stated that the first amendment built "a wall of separation between Church & State". It was not taken to mean that religion could not influence the state, but that the state could not establish a national religion.

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with elected officials praying at public meetings as long as those officials do not try to force others to pray and respect those who do not share their religion.

[–]MJG2007 2 points3 points ago

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Where does that line get drawn? It is easy when it is something you are comfortable with to say "It isn't a big deal", but we live in a very diverse society. Is it germane to the proceedings? Is it appropriate to gather a bunch of diverse people together in a secular setting to do a job and make everyone else sit through an expression of faith? You know, if you have to make a decision and you feel the need to pray on it, more power to you. You can pray to yourself in two seconds.

[–]gruntyboy 1 point2 points ago

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I agree with you in theory. The problem becomes what about the Jewish members of Congress? Do they get a prayer also? Can the atheists say something? What about the Muslims? It is a can of worms that should not be opened. I wish the religious would simply keep their prayers between themselves and their god... I would also argue that your statement "The concept of separation of church and state is an important one, but it is not in the US constitution." The First Amendment says it: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." This can be interpreted many ways, and we could debate those for about a decade. I argue that even though not a law, praying before Congress should be private, and not pushed on everyone. Isn't that the heart of the argument? Religion has no place in government? It is an interesting and almost unsolvable argument. I enjoy the debate!!!

[–]BobCollins 1 point2 points ago

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And IMHO, there is everything wrong with elected officials praying at public meetings. I believe that there is almost nothing that is more corrupting of civil government than the injection of theology.

Why can't they practice their religion without involving the rest of us? There is no place in civil government for their personal religious beliefs.

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