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[–]Ass4ssinX 11 points12 points ago

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I had this conversation on /r/atheism but I have to disagree a bit with the article.

I would say that SPIRITUALITY comes naturally to us, not religion. Religion has just had a monopoly on spirituality for so long and they equate a spiritual experience to experiencing god.

You can still be an atheist and have spiritual experiences. You just know that it comes from within yourself and not from a god.

[–]frogmeat[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Could you explain what you mean by "spirituality" and "spiritual experiences"?

[–]Ass4ssinX 3 points4 points ago

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I would say spiritual experiences(at least to me) are profound experiences of awe. Like sometimes when I look at the night sky and just think about what's all out there and I begin to just feel utterly minuscule to just how big the universe is and I'm just in awe of it's majesty. That's an spiritual experience to me. It doesn't have to be the universe though, it can be anything. It could be something as walking through a trail and seeing a really beautiful tree.It has nothing at all to do with any gods.

Here, check this video out for a better and more fleshed out answer than what I provided here- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

I'm an atheist, btw.

[–]frogmeat[S] 0 points1 point ago

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Perhaps a term other than "spiritual" would be more appropriate? Your definition doesn't suit the commonly-accepted usage of the word, and leads to confusion.

Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: 1 spir·i·tu·al Pronunciation: \ˈspir-i-chə-wəl, -i-chəl, -ich-wəl\ Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French & Late Latin; Anglo->French espirital, spiritual, from Late Latin spiritualis, from Latin, of breathing, of wind, from spiritus Date: 14th century 1 : of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal <spiritual needs> 2 a : of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs> b : ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual> 3 : concerned with religious values 4 : related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir> 5 a : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena b : of, relating to, or involving spiritualism : spiritualistic

[–]Ass4ssinX 1 point2 points ago

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I would say that Definition 1 is probably the most appropriate but only if you assume spirit not as a literal soul but as your inner self. Something that affects the very fabric of YOU.

I agree that it's not the best word out there, but I have yet to find a good alternative.

[–]frogmeat[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I'll let you look up "spirit" . . .

An "experience of awe", maybe?

[–]Ass4ssinX 0 points1 point ago

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I know the textbook definition of spirit so I know what your getting at, but my point still stands. You have to take spirit a certain way, and if you do, it works.

See when religious people have a spiritual experience it IS a experience of awe. I'm saying that you can have those moments of awe, call it spiritual, but remove all religious connotations from it. It works, I wish there was another word for it, because when you say spiritual religious ideas come to mind, but there isn't a better substitute.

[–]frogmeat[S] 0 points1 point ago

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Your mission, should you choose to accept it . . . Find a word that means what you're saying without you needing to explain that you don't mean its accepted definition. :)

[–]Ass4ssinX 0 points1 point ago

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I'll let you know if I find one. :P

[–]Pilebsa 0 points1 point ago

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It's not "spirituality", it's a need for answers to questions. Spirituality is just a made up answer to satiate weak-minded people. When the fraud perpetrates on a large scale and starts to influence more intelligent people, then routine, say weekly indoctrination is necessary to maintain the illusion. In some cases, repetitive indoctrination is implemented several times a day (Islam).

[–]Ass4ssinX 2 points3 points ago

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Listen, I'm all gung ho about criticizing religion, but you missed my point completely.

I explained what I meant in the comment above, but I'll link the video for you for convenience. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

[–]daysi -2 points-1 points ago

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Spiritual experience. What the fuck does that even mean? That concept is not materially better than the bullshit that other religions preach.

[–]Ass4ssinX 1 point2 points ago

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/sigh

Look at the two comments above you, but also for convenience here is the video that explains "what the fuck" a spiritual experience means.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

[–]daysi -2 points-1 points ago

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Thanks for wasting 5 minutes of my life.

[–]Ass4ssinX 1 point2 points ago

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Sorry you felt that way.

[–]sandflea 6 points7 points ago

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Where do atheists come from?

I come from Florida.

[–]sir_wooly_merkins 1 point2 points ago

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so you're the one!

[–]fburnaby 5 points6 points ago* 

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I'm glad to see someone proposing this type of study. But the idea that non-theism is not already being studied is probably just a way to make their work sound sexy and draw in grant money. By studying theism, we're studying atheism as well -- by what other standard could we be comparing the believers? Really, they're just re framing the same question that lots of work is already addressing. Re framing of scientific hypotheses can, of course, be a good productive thing, but it seems a stretch to say they're venturing into completely new territory.

It also seems like they dance around the obvious hypothesis. Education is mostly based on learning "facts", but someone who studies these "facts" may come to realize a trend in which positive claims require evidence in order to be considered facts. Anyone who wishes to ignore this trend can keep their dearly held beliefs and keep on learning. But at the same time, education should make people more prone to this realization about "facts". Once you're in a environment where calling something a fact requires empirical observation, you might as well apply the same standard to all of your beliefs. This readily and easily explains the observations made in the article about the relationship between education and non faith. It also fits the claims that atheists frequently make about their own beliefs (ie "there's simply no reason to believe, so I don't").

[–]KableKiB 6 points7 points ago

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What is more, the survey shows a far stronger correlation between education and certain "irrational" beliefs: for example, only 29.6 per cent of those without even an elementary education believe in telepathy, compared with 51.8 per cent of people with degree-level education.

O.O

[–]Pilebsa 2 points3 points ago

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Atheists come from the womb.

Everyone is born atheist.

Until someone indoctrinates you into irrational, superstitious thinking, you'd have no inclination to believe in supernatural things.

I think about how as a young child, one might be afraid of the dark or think there's a monster under their bed. I don't think these fears materialized out of nothing. There's probably a genetic component built in for us to fear something we don't understand. Spirituality was initially born to alleviate some of that innate fear we feel as part of our defense mechanism that cannot be otherwise easily quelled. But this could also be achieved by a rational understanding of the world and our part in it.

[–]stringerbell 4 points5 points ago

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Oh, it's long since been proven where atheist tendencies come from - intelligence... Religiosity and intelligence are negatively correlated - Atheism and intelligence are positively correlated... The more intelligence you have - the much less likely it is that you'll be religious...

[–]terraserenus 6 points7 points ago

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Intelligence isn't a requirement though. I live in Texas which is a very religion centric place. I have a friend that scores below average on the IQ scale and he doesn't believe in a god. He did not arrive at these conclusions by critical thinking or reasoning it out though, he simply was not indoctrinated growing up.

[–]Pilebsa 0 points1 point ago

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I've also noticed an increasing new breed of "objectivst atheists" who are becoming more popular. Like conservatives who seem to resent the government because there is no specific benefit-to-their-specs for their tax dollars, the new objectivist/conservative atheist resents god because he hasn't done anything specific for him, and therefore chooses to call himself "atheist."

[–]hsfrey 4 points5 points ago

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93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences are atheists.

How can this article claim that there is minimal correlation between intelligence and atheism?

[–]Ajzzz 1 point2 points ago

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Because they imply that all degrees are equivalent, and that there aren't plenty of bullshit degrees, including those that specifically involve religious beliefs. They make this error a few times. They're probably even including the arts, which as a whole no one ever suggested encouraged rational thinking.

[–]Lur_Ker 3 points4 points ago

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The people commenting on New Scientist really depress me.

[–]darknebula -5 points-4 points ago

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Can't wait for the obligatory: "The people commenting on reddit really depress me."

[–]cdwillis 0 points1 point ago

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Look around, people are always bitching about reddit comments going downhill (along with everything else).

[–]frogmeat[S] 6 points7 points ago

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The people commenting on the people commenting on Reddit really annoy me.

[–]Hesperus -3 points-2 points ago

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Can't wait for the obligatory: "The people commenting on the internet really depress me."

[–]Hesperus -5 points-4 points ago

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The people commenting on reddit really depress me.

[–]Lur_Ker 1 point2 points ago

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I am easily depressed, it seems. Those coments looked a lot worse last night. Well, some of them, anyway.

[–]Up2Eleven -1 points0 points ago

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I'm gonna cut myself.

[–]Manioti 0 points1 point ago

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Tis a sewer flushed with ignorance.

[–]brandnewset 0 points1 point ago

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Sprituality is innate and natural.

Religion is another mans set of rules to buck.

We can be spritual without religion, its an individual path. And no - I am not 'religious', but I have had large group experiences (think 1000 people) focusing their energy on one thing and seeing a results. In this case it was 3 beautiful women doing a rain dance at a festival, and seriously - we had 30 seconds of rain all week, but wouldn't you know it came in the last 40 seconds of their performance (which was the peak of a water themed stage opening). Not only did it rain for just 30 seconds out of a clear sky - the rain drops were big and fat and thick... in that case I for sure could feel the collective energy of the universe simply by feeling love for everyone and everything around... I know - it sounds easy but our 'current reality' as found when fighting for individual survival, fights that every step of the way by trying to individualize us.

[–]brandnewset 0 points1 point ago

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I cannot locate the video of the opening... yet. Here is one that uncannily enough was taken probably 15 minutes later while 1000 people plus were still riding that high. I am getting the chills just thinking about it and can't wait until August!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=YzQ80sdJvxI&feature=related

[–]adamwho 0 points1 point ago

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Atheists come from good schools.

[–]bradread1 0 points1 point ago

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oh please all religions are based on a few common sense ideals. the rest of the dogma is simply fables backing the "moral of the story " think about it,can it be proven these things "happened'? no i cannot concede to beliefs that cannot be proven. no offense,but the believers are fools.

[–]maineac -1 points0 points ago

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Because they are smart enough to not believe in fairy tales.